Would you trust a carpenter without plans for under-stairs storage?

[Celestineisland]

Would you trust a carpenter who hasn’t produced drawings for an expensive and complex job creating storage under stairs?

I was recommended a carpenter by my decorator and he’s obviously old school (despite not being old) and just builds as he works. I’ve asked for plans and he can’t produce them and instead has sent me a photo with drawers drawn on vis whatsapp. He’s sent me pics of previous work, which look ok, but don’t compare at all for what I’m looking for.

I'm not going to be at the property while the work is being carried out as I’ll be on the other side of the world. My gut is telling me to find someone else, but I thought I’d check to see if anyone was in this situation before and if it’s worked out or not. I’m know each case is different but would appreciate some thoughts!

It’s an expensive job so I want to get this right.

Our carpenter has never given us drawings of what the finished product will look like, he gives us a written quote with the description and measurements, but no drawings. His work is fantastic and has included some really complex/tricky built ins.

So I don’t think having drawings is a requirement really, but obviously if you want them you can just tell him you need a detailed drawing before you can accept the quote.

Given that it’s a lot of extra work for
him (with no guarantee that you then accept the quote) he may decline and you’ll have to find somebody else, that’s the risk you take.

I wouldn't expect plans, but I would ensure I have communicated what I require in writing with a basic illustration as a minimum.

Thank you.

Do you think it’s unreasonable for me to ask for past clients I can speak to? I feel I may annoy him and there’s already been so much to-ing and fro-ing.

Carpenters don’t draw up plans. They just build.

you’ll soon know if he’s annoyed, he’ll just dump you 🙈😂 good carpenters are in demand

I gave my carpenter a drawing and he created it.

Carpenters don't draw plans, they just build.

I've had lots of things built by an amazing carpenter. We never get plans. We just talk it through as he goes and amend to suit us and the space.

has sent me a photo with drawers drawn on via whatsapp

And do those drawers correspond to what you're looking for?

Yes I see carpenters more as putting your ideas into practice so I always draw a sketch and give measurements of spaces I may need etc. maybe ask him to send photos of other jobs he’s done?

The examples of his work aren’t great tbh. That should have put me off. He came in way less than the fancy company I originally got in to quote which is what I was keen on, so I was willing to take a risk. Then I asked for a scope of works and even though we talked it through, I just needed to know we were on the same page. He sent me the photo was drawing on top. Then I asked him for more detail (as this is all being made and fit while I’m away) and he was very much pushing on me making design decisions and not providing anything. Eventually I just suggested showing him the cad drawings the fancy company made, which he was very happy with and said he’d build to that. Then sent me a revised quote which was the same as the fancy company. All of this has made me very uncertain. Also worth adding I think peri menopause is making me incredibly indecisive. One for another post I think.

Image sent to me

So you sent him the quote from the fancy company? Obviously if he thinks you were considering that quote then he’ll raise his figure to match!

It doesn’t sound like he’s a great fit for you tbh, can you get some more quotes?

And it would be better to draw your own version of the design produced by fancy pants company and then show that to other carpenters. Don’t show them the fancy pants drawing or they’ll know you’re looking at expensive options.

I think your expectations are a bit odd to be honest. Carpenters don’t design things (well, some do, but that’s part of their service like your first company)

Honestly you get what you pay for I think he’ll just make 3 doors
Where as I think your expecting the fancy pullout draws
go with fancy firm you get what you pay for
with thing like this I don’t think he’ll meet your expectations but I wouldn’t expect any plans I’d do my own and ask him to build it

I usually sketch out what I want for carpenters. I’m surprised he quoted same as the expensive company, seems an odd strategy by him not to undercut them!
If examples of his existing work aren’t good and you’re feeling uncertain, go with someone else!

He saw the drawings not the quote itself. Anyway, thanks for your advice, I think my best bet would be to go with the fancy company as they’re all much of a muchness now.

Not sure why you'd need plans for a cupboard...

So there is no margin for error! It’s shoe storage shelves. If the carpenters vision is different to what I was expecting and I only see it once it’s built, it’s a massive fuck up all round! This is costing thousands.

I had someone to quote for turning a smallish bedroom into a dressing room. He literally just hand drew some ideas on a piece of A4 paper them asked me what I wanted re shelving, hanging space etc. and drew them in. To be honest I was disappointed not to get a visual of what we discussed together, but thankfully I did feel confident in his ability. And I was very happy with the outcome 😊

If you know what you want, draw it and annotate (e.g. drawer dimensions 600mm wide, 900mm deep, 300mm high, on Hafele pull-out ball bearing runners. Doors 300mm wide, on 180 degree opening Blum soft-close hinges, plinth 150mm high, same veneer as doors).

If you don't know what you want, you won't get it

That's why successful building contracts are never done like that.

I think these under stair storage pull out drawers are brilliant - do they really cost thousands to make?? I was expecting maybe £500!!

You can buy ready-made drawers in standard sizes. The quality makers are not particularly cheap, but they do not run to thousands.

Unless you have money to burn, design a solution using standard size doors and drawer-fronts that are available off the shelf in a variety of finishes.

Like building kitchen cabinets, the carcases can be made of rectangular skabs of laminated chipboard, cut into sizes that you will derive from your site measurements and the drawings.

Some example drawer packs
https://www.ironmongerydirect.co.uk/search/filter/ironmongery_type%3E%7Bdrawer20pack20solution%7D?page=2&query=blum%20drawers

I have Blumotion but there are a few other good quality makers. I once bought some from B&Q own brand and they quickly went in the skip.

He’s just got that off the internet!!!

to answer a few points:

I don’t know what I’m talking about so I can’t offer direction on the nitty gritty. I’m paying for expertise as part of the project and don’t want the responsibility of measuring up or specifying the materials, as I don’t have the knowledge. I know what I want and created a Pinterest board with examples which I shared with the carpenter.

We’re in an expensive part of london so there’s always a bit of a premium for all work, which is unfair but is a reality. I’ve had three people quote and they’ve all been around the 10k mark. This also includes the refurb of a coat cupboard too. The initial guy came in cheaper but upped his price when he started working towards to cad drawings.

I’ve decided to go with the fancy company, as I know their quality is superb and they are the same price as both other quotes.

thanks for all the advice.