What to think about before the builders come!

[Rosehipbrandy]

Hi,
We have a major renovation planned to our newish house. Plans all approved and finished ready for building control. We are now talking to builders about quotes and time scales.

I am trying to think of everything we need to think about now. Can anyone tell me what is missing from this list? Thank you!

• place to stay whilst work going on!
• speak to building insurance company to let them know about building works
• move valuables
• tell neighbours

And also I wondered if anyone had good ideas about managing builders - what type of contract to ask for etc?

Thank you!!

Make sure to get a fixed price for the job would be main advice.

Have you hired a project manager or do you intend to manage it yourself?

Thanks for replying. We won’t have a separate project manager. I’d sort of assumed our builder would do that for us - is that not the case?

It depends upon what you're having done. Sometimes there are unforeseen issues and somebody needs to be on hand to make a decision. Builders aren't generally the best people to make aesthetic decisions, and if there isn't somebody managing them and making sure they're doing what they're supposed to be doing, that can lead to problems.

Definitely make sure that you have a full schedule of works and an agreed price IN WRITING.

In my experience, building projects usually take twice as long as estimated and cost 50% more than the initial price.

I have worked with lots of builders and tradesmen. Some are brilliant, other are a total nightmare.

Also, the mess they make is unbelievable. If you are leaving things like carpets down, protect them thoroughly with that special overlay and covering from builder's merchants.

I am in the same position as you, my plans are approved, and I am in the process of getting some quotes in from builders.

I have spoken to neighbours and sorted out the Party Wall agreement as I am knocking out a chimney breast.

Do you have kitchen plans etc already finalised? Builders are all suggesting that that needs to be finalised now, and so do the fittings as much as possible as this will avoid delay.

I haven't sorted kitchen design yet so I am looking into it this weekend now.

Yes any bathrooms and kitchens need layouts sorting very early on.

We are in the same position, our builders started a couple of weeks ago.

Our architect is project managing.

The builders sent a quote which was initially really vague and I have put it into a spreadsheet and am working hard on itemising as much as I can.

Builders generally will only quote for first fix so building materials etc but so much stuff comes in on top like any windows, decoration, all fixtures and fittings. We are trying to work through this at the moment so we are super clear what is included in the quote and what we will need to pay on top.

I would really recommend trying to get them to do something itemised like that in writing so you know what is agreed in their price and what is in addition. Also try and get some kind of method of grouping bits of work into stages if you can, as then when you pay make sure they invoice against each specific stage so you can track where you are if that makes sense.

To be honest, I think its a bit of an art rather than a science.

Try and a get a builder with a recommendation from someone you know or see if they will let you go round/speak to a previous client to check they were happy with their work and process.

Lots to think about here. We did a massive amount of work on our house recently, so here are my top tips.

1. Everything in writing. If you agree to something verbally follow it up immediately in writing. Write to them before you start and say any extras have to be agreed in writing before they go ahead.

1. Agree stage payments and STICK TO THEM. You wouldn't believe the number of sob stories I had to try to get early payments. They are not your friends. But be reasonable. If they have to buy materials up front then its reasonable they are not shouldering the burden of this.

1. Make sure any fixtures and fittings they install are agreed before hand. Otherwise they'll fit the cheapest crap they can.

1. Avoid changing the design once you start - these can and do add large increased costs.

1. Be reasonable. They are human and will make mistakes. Be sympathetic to their situation.

And my secret weapon? I got them to love working for me. If you're a pain then they will take any opportunity to bog off to another job and leave you dangling. My builders looked forward to coming to work for me. What I did is I got a fridge (was a hot summer) and stuffed it full of ice cold drinks and regular amounts of ice creams (Aldi). Told them to help themselves. Cost me about £250 in all - just over a days labour. Cooked them the odd fry-up at lunch too. Money well spent, I assure you.

To go further than @TobyHouseMan

Draw up a detailed specification. That should reference the plans which include the building control plans and contain everything and positioning, ie make sure you have enough lights, sockets and radiators or underfloor heating. Our plans had hardly any of the above and one radiator for a huge room.

The spec should then include anything that isn't on the plans or other requirements. For example, they should quote for a minimum of 1 metre foundations. Ensure they also quote for every 10cm additional depth in case you have to go deeper and if so, that is a huge money spinner for them....ours were 2.5m deep!!

Sorry, pressed the send too soon. The spec needs to also include the detail of windows etc if you have a preference and model number. I could go on and on...but if you don't specify some builders will quote for the cheapest nastiest shit products. For example. Roof lights. You need Velux but they are expensive and as a result they have three lines of defence against leaks, others have one!

After that draw up a contract. Get an example and change it if required. DONT use the FMB one as it favours the builders.

Specify the payment schedule. A proportion every 2 weeks. DONT make any payments in advance. Ensure you have a 20% holdback to be paid 14 days after it is fully complete, the building control certificate has been received by you and you are full satisfied. Gives you a snagging period. Also detail the circs you will stop payments. Ie poor weather means no progress.

If you get this right it makes a big difference.

Photograph it all the way through, especially when steels are being inserted. Photograph all the welds and supporting blocks. Photo all the walls before plastering showing pipes and wires so you know are

Good luck

A very small thing, but if you are going to be there you will end up making a lot of tea! So... buy tea bags, get cheap mugs, buy sugar (mine had a lot of sugar!).

Just came back to this thread and found so many more replies. Thank you all!
We have set out a start date now, so the count down is on.

We have very detailed plan from our structural engineer and architect, which has been used as the basis of the quote, and are supplying must of the windows / doors / bathroom stuff etc ourselves so I will have totally control there!

The idea of filling the fridge up is so clever. We won’t be living onsite most of the time, so it will be good to put on a show of hospitality in between the daily visits.

Our builders have been recommended via several different routes so I am really hopeful that they will prove to be as good as their recommendation. They gave done a small amount of work for us in the past which went well too.

Still feels like a total leap of faith in some ways though...!

Good luck to everyone in the same position, and I hope those of you who are have already done the work are happy and not too scarred from the experience

OP I am sure things will be fine the tip about tea coffee sugar and cheap mugs is good.

We didn’t have a project manager the builder arranged everything and we lived on site.

One thing I would say which I didn’t do and couldn’t do was think about exactly where you would like radiators (what size type you want), where you want plug sockets, what type of lighting you want where etc. So basically spend a but of time properly visualising your space and think of the nitty gritty. I didn’t do this and had to decide in a rush and so wished I had.

What are you doing with your furniture etc while the work is going on? We had 6 months of building and renovation and we decamped to one room in the house but emptied as much as we could from elsewhere and put it into storage with a removal company. Don't underestimate the mess building makes. The dust gets everywhere. It's horrendous. Also, in wet weather/winter the areas outside your house can become a quagmire with all those builders and vehicles tramping about. Keep your wellies handy.

Thanks for this Thread. We are at the very early stages of extending and reconfiguring. Just remortgaged and we now have the money to go ahead. Architects coming round next week.

Is there a book that covers how to approach all of these things? Or some guides of some nature?! There seems to be a book for every other thing! I have never even so much as replaced a bathroom and I can see us making huge mistakes at every stage!!

Hide your vacuum and buy a cheap builders wet/dry vacuum. We bought 'Wicksy' as we named it - the wet/dry hoover from Wickes for 40 quid and it sucked up rubble, plaster, sawdust even water from a small leak - it was well worth it.

@WellTidy there is a Haynes manual for home extensions (and just about everything else!) Amazon have got it.

Yes hiding vacuum and storing unused furniture is a good tip don't underestimate the mess and dust or the weight gain if kitchen out of action.

You cannot plan the details enough! It's horrible being given half an hour by the builder to specify exact measurements for something you'd not considered.

Sit and visualise exactly where your windows, doors, radiators (plus size for room), lights, drainage etc will go. Think of which circuits you want your lights on and controlled from where?

Will you need a new, larger boiler? We've had to upgrade the water pipe coming into the house plus the size of the pipes in the existing house to accommodate new showers etc.

Talk with your builder about when they'll need items on site (windows, radiators) that you are sourcing.

Do pin down exactly where drainage pipes will go, it can affect the type of toilet you need (bottom out or wall hung). Also ask if they are providing a porta-loo for the workers on site.

We're about three quarters of the way through and it's very loud and VERY dusty!! I've bought plastic door coverings, with zips, to try and limit the mess going into bedrooms.

Reed thanks - I’ve just ordered it.

Our builders really appreciated kettle, flask mugs and biscuits! I think they went the extra mile for us as we were kind and thoughtful to them.

@flossy12345

Our builders really appreciated kettle, flask mugs and biscuits! I think they went the extra mile for us as we were kind and thoughtful to them.

Same, I used to make them bacon sandwiches and cakes sometimes :)

When you ring your insurance company they will want the name and policy number of your builders liability insurance.

If you are leaving anything in the house bag it up to stop the dust. Use duck tape. We put our 4 seat sofa and a piano in (two separate) bags - you can get furniture bags from amazon. Towels on the floor upstairs to stop dust if you're having work downstairs. That sort of thing.

Yes to charity shop mugs, bags of sugar, tea, coffee and squash. We get milk delivered so just added to the order for the builders.

Very useful thread. We shall be starting our home renovation shortly. We have to do new electrics, new heating, new flooring, plastering, painting walls. Estimating 5/6/7 weeks work.
I really like the concept of keeping fridge stocked and a kettle.

Few questions:

1. Say I agree a fixed price with the builder. But then I would like to choose the boiler, flooring etc - these must be of good quality. Typically I'm seeing the builders giving fixed quote prefer to buy things on their own and not mix client buying certain things etc.
   So shall I go for Labour only or Labour+Materials ? Whats the better model.

2. Say the quote is 25k, what kind of payment schedule I should go for. I understand from above keep 20% holdback, then every 2 weeks pay an amount. I'm sure they will be asking for an advance to buy materials etc.

3. To save money, I'm considering non VAT builders but they have liability insurance.

Any thoughts pls.

@vivimimi

1. You need to be really specific. I created a specification document that detailed, the type of doors, handles, switches, windows etc I wanted. I drew electricity diagrams showing where lights and switches would go. Every single detail, room by room and asked them to cost by that. I also inc web addresses of the coving etc i wanted so it was clear.
2. They shouldnt ask for an advance. I based ours on key points being achieved, i.e. groundwork completed etc. I sent it to them and asked for their feedback, they adjusted it slightly as they had a better idea of costs.
3. We paid the agreed amount, it's not your responsibility to pay their Vat it's theirs.