Will this kitchen layout work?

[greennosugar]

We're knocking our kitchen and dining room into one to create an open-plan space. The main part of the kitchen will be L-shaped, although I'm thinking of including some 300mm depth larder cabinets too (the room is too narrow for them to be any deeper). We're getting the units from DIY Kitchens so we've been working on the design ourselves, but I need to place the order soon and I'm getting nervous that I'm missing something obvious! I think the layout options are fairly limited because of the shape of the room, location of windows, etc, but I'd really appreciate some different perspectives, and any kitchen planning wisdom that you can share!!

Consider having the dishwasher and sink next to each other - far more practical. Also, the fridge is a long way from the sink end of the room. If you are making a hot drink, you'll have to trek all over the place. Think about how you will use the space to do basic kitchen tasks.

What about tall full depth larder units at the end where you have the fridge in your design? You could have a dresser type of set up instead of the slimline larder units and have the toaster, kettle etc there, plus cutlery, glassware, etc. and it's close to the dining room.

Why not have the hob above the built under cooker or are you having the cooker in a tower unit? I don't think you are given the units above.

If you look at professional kitchen designs, you'll see there is a lot of symmetry - so same sized and design of units either side of the cooker. And where's the towel rail?!

What about getting a different kitchen supplier round to see what they come up with? You can then take elements of their design and incorporate them if you like them.

Thanks for replying, that's all really useful feedback.

I'm not sure I can move the dishwasher any nearer to the sink unless I move the sink to a different place on the 'longer' wall (or get a slimline dishwasher... which isn't really a possibility).

I have left a critical detail out of the plan - there's a fairly large window immediately to the right of the space where the fridge will be, which really limits what we can have there. We wanted to have an eye-level oven and tall units here, so we considered blocking up the window, but decided that it would mean losing too much light.

I thought putting the hob next to rather than over the oven might actually make it easier when you're taking something out of the oven and the hob is full of pans, but I agree it does look a bit strange...

Yes, I think getting some different designs done would be a good idea. We did have one done by a local company, but it wasn't great - full depth units on both sides of the room which would have meant doors knocking together in the middle if they were open at the same time...

And don't worry - there'll definitely be room for a towel rail!!

About the dishwasher - you already have a void to the side of the 400mm unit anyway, so what about putting the dishwasher there and doing something instead of the huge corner unit? E.g. a smaller unit (150mm pull out towel rail unit would work - I'm not taking the Mickey) next to the sink unit and a pull out magic corner unit with blind rhs into the corner.

What's this obsession with towel rails? Mine hang on the oven door handle to dry and get chucked in the wash within hours of being started, anyhow!

I think that the dishwasher and sink are a good turning circle apart (guessing you have a futility room for the washer) and the fridge is in good proximity to the cooking area. I would stack the oven and hob for neatness. I often use my hob to put stuff on from the oven and cookers have them above each other! I've have them in the slot closer to the sink rather than closer to the fridge, though, so move the oven to uder the hob, rather than the hob to over the oven. The shorter distance you have to walk with pans of boiling water to drain, the better.

The void is crying out for a bottle rack!

Is the opening into the dining room wide enough to allow for a breakfast bar?

Not an obsession at all - just practical to have hand and tea towels by the sink and it was tongue cheek; DIY Kitchens do several different 150mm base units.

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Lost my post there

Need fridge closer to sink, can you move it over to the far right and out eye level ovens where your fridge is. So a big unit st with end, for symmetry?
I like having worktop on both sides of the hob

Is there also a window where the sink currently is?

The freestanding fridge might be a problem. If you open the door with the handles to the right then you'll be fine. If the handles are on the left then they are going to hit your wall and the door might not be able to open fully to get the salad cooler and shelves out.

Having had a quick look the free standing fridge screams out to me as being too far away... also I think you have two many pan drawers.. one each either side of oven? Could you think about having a fridge drawer instead? To be honest I've only seen this in practice in one kitchen but it looks like a normal deep pan drawer and is actually a fridge. I believe people love them! I have 2 pan drawers in my island and there's plenty of space and I think I have a lot of stuff to store! Also, for me, as someone else said I would have a large larder type cupboard where you are thinking of having the free standing fridge. We have one, it's got shelves for non perishable food and integrated veg baskets in the bottom. Beg baskets are so big you could also store linen for the dining room, gadgets etc in it.

Also, many many kitchen designers do a free layout planning service. I had 4-5 designs done before I got the right 'fit'. I was fitting a kitchen into a space where a kitchen had never been so I was not limited to putting new things into a space they were before, but because of external drainage issues I had to have plumbing in certain parts of the kitchen only. I would invite kitchen designers round. Make up a 'budget' if you have to, you are under no obligation to buy from them but they will be able to assist with their experience and probably come up with a layout you may never have thought of. Good luck!

Is there going to be anything you want to store in the corner unit in the dishwasher? With the dishwasher open you aren't going to be able to get into that unit. Which is fine if it's storing something else...

For the fridge you need to check you can open the door fully. We lived in an apartment where it was right against the wall like that and you couldn't open the door all the way. That meant we couldn't get the bottom drawer out to clean it properly. Most annoying... And I think if the door opens the wrong way it would be just as annoying, though for different reasons. Having to go around the fridge door to put things on the bench does not seem sensible.

Oh and the other important question - where are the things going to be that you need to hand when you are cooking. Where are the oil, spices, etc. Where are the things you are going to use to stir pans etc. It looks to me like the latter are going to end up in the 4 drawer unit. Is that too far from the hob?

Also where are you actually going to be prepping food? I assume between the fridge and the oven. I'd worry that that is also the space that you are going to want to have the kettle/coffee machine in. Possibly the toaster too. Which would eat into your prep space.

I think if it were me, I'd have a built in fridge freezer and a built in oven tower on the right of your diagram (where you have your sink and bin) so that they're tucked away and not really visible from the dining room.

Then on the back wall, I'd just have a run of base units (pan drawers) along the whole wall with the sink and dishwasher under the window. I wouldn't have wall units at all as I think they only look good in a run across the room (as in the photo Ferrisday posted), if they're broken up by windows / cooker hoods etc I think they look old fashioned. But I quite like the minimalist look (even with shaker / in frame kitchens) and I think the wider the units the better for storage.

Why isn't a slimline dishwasher a possibility? You can get ones that take 9 place settings (like this integrated one from John Lewis that comes with 5 yr guarantee). We had a slimline one for years and then moved to a house with a full size - I preferred the slimline one, could fit loads in it. It will be easier to plumb in next to the sink.

Fridge behind the door is really awkward - been there, done that. Like wowfudge's idea of a deep larder unit set up there, but then that leaves you the problem of where to put the fridge and freezer - unless you go integrated / built under or move the sink / dishwasher under the window where you have the drawers / pan drawers?

Some fridges are designed to be put tight to a wall, ours is in a corner. It's a Bosch one, it's not obvious but all the shelves and drawers can tilt slightly to be pulled out when the door is open against the corner wall. I'm impressed they put that thought into it. You have to look closely at installation dimensions of any fridge you consider. The skirting board gives you a few centimetres anyway.

Have you tried reversing the layout? ie. sink and dishwasher under the top window, hob more to the corner, (maybe where you have dishwasher) and larders/tall oven on the RH wall. That gets over the big length of worktop under the window which is a long way from the sink.

Sorry for not responding sooner - there's so much great advice here.

However your comments have made me realise that my original sketch was incomplete. There is another window at the end of the room, above the sink, which means we can't have anything tall there (as an aside, we did consider losing one of the windows, but after an experiment with some temporary blackout blinds we've decided to prioritise light over storage space!). The doorway is actually a new one so I can ask the builder if the door can open out rather than in, which should make the fridge access a bit easier (the space for the fridge is actually 700mm - I'd built in some room for the door to open and drawers to come out).

I've updated to plan to show the windows, and take on board some of the comments. I've also got a kitchen designer coming over at the weekend, but in the meantime...

CountMagnus Re the dishwasher. We've got two young children and entertain fairly regularly. I'd like to think we could get away with a smaller dishwasher but most of the reviews I've read talk about them being best for couples. Maybe I need to reconsider.

PickAChew You've reassured me about stacking the hob and oven, and your point about carrying pans of boiling water is a really good one. I'm not having a bottle rack - I never keep them long enough to have any on display...

MrsMoasty The opening space into the dining room is only a couple of metres so I don't think there's room for a breakfast bar.

Everyone has picked up on the fridge being a long way away from the sink, but I think the only way to address this would be having separate under-counter fridge and freezer, which I'm not that keen on. Does anyone have this? I suppose it would mean I could use the current fridge space for a large larder cupboard or eye-level oven...

mrsmortis I was going to have an integrated draw in one of the pan drawers for utensils. You're right about oil, etc, though.

namechangedtoday15 I do think an integrated fridge freezer would be better (although it would have to stay in the current position - it won't go to the right because of the windowunder the sink). You've made reassess the wall units too. I'm not keen on them either but I've been working on the basis that we need as much space as possible. I do think they look a bit awkward, so I've taken them off the updated plan, but I need to work out exactly what will go in each cupboard and see if we've got enough room.

Given the window restrictions I think it's not a bad plan. I'd be a bit concerned about when stacking the dishwasher if your scraping plates into a pull out bin, rinsing them then putting them in, you may be trapped between the bin and open dishwasher door, I'd measure to see if you would be able to walk in and out.
We're in the middle ofplanning our kitchen too and there will be about 4m between the sink and fridge which looks similar to your layout? Sometimes it's the only way you can fit things in.