Have you tried to plan a kitchen? Why do you need to follow various rules when doing so?

[FlaseFuckerSpider]

We have the IKEA kitchen planner currently open. It is a nightmare in a small space.

When I click on the hob it says you are required to put at least 40cm's of worktop each side of the hob. I can't fit it in, can I get away with 40cm's on one side?

The 40cm is a guide, you should have at least 30cm between a hob and either a wall or tall unit

Small kitchens are the hardest to plan, especially if you aren't used to doing it

What we have is as follows:

Wall one. Door going out to hall to the left, tiny gap to wall. Door going out to the garden on the right. Door gives just enough space for one unit.

Wall one. Tall unit with electric double oven. Gas Hob 60cm unit. 37cm deep, 40cm base unit. 40cm tall wall unit above.

Wall two. Door going out to garden.

Wall two. Wall unit, nothing beneath, I will be putting a kitchen trolley there. Wall unit 40cm, with the roll up/down option to sit on the worktop, function to hide the kettle/toaster, under is a 40cm door fronted cupboard with drawers. I figured these drawers will break at some point so at least the door will cover the mess

Wall three. boiler, window.

Wall three. So the rollup/down unit is attached to wall two with the 40cm unit beneath attached to wall three. next you have the boiler on top. Underneath is the dishwasher. Next is the double sink, part is blocked off, and there is a gap at the end of the wall.

Wall four. Door out to the hall.

Wall four. A high glass unit not too close to the window, slightly blocking it. The remaining half of the sink unit attached to wall three. Fridge freezer. A 37cm deep base unit, 40cm. A high glass unit 40cm above. Door out to the hall.

There is nowhere else to fit things. Do you think I will get away with the hob as it is?

17leftfeet I have the hob directly next to the tall unit where the double oven is located. So should I move the 40cm unit between them? That is a shame as it will now make getting into the room quite difficult.

I have to agree, it is much harder to plan a kitchen than I had thought. Homebase do a good, free, kitchen planning service.

Personally I would change the hob to electric

Gas shouldn't be within 1m of a window or door

I know in lots of kitchens they are but they are very inefficient in any kind of draught and can blow out so need to have a safety cut out

If you put the hob right next to the tall unit you won't be able to use the rings on that side

You need an absolute minimum of 15cm between hob and upright surface

Ahem. In my old small kitchen we had the gas hob next to a tall unit. Nothing terrible happened. Even when I forgot to turn the gas ring off and left it on for three hours unattended. It had been like that in our old kitchen as well and nothing awful happened (although the cupboard wall was tiled in the old kitchen).

I have been back on the planner and changed the 40cm to sit between the hob and double oven. It is going to be tricky to get in and out of the room now. I could get the door to swing out of the room rather than in.

I took the units away from wall four to aid getting in and out of the room which helps.

It looks like the gas is out then as too close to a door. clicks back to IKEA kitchen planner

There are several reasons why it shouldn't go against a vertical surface

Pan handles should turn out whilst in use, otherwise they get hot and are more likely to be knocked over causing accidents

Steam will collect on the wall causing issues with surface damp, or blistering

Discolouration of the unit at the side

Yes you will see this set up in other people's homes but it doesn't mean it's ok and isn't compliant with current regulations

Please go and see a proper kitchen planner before you buy a kitchen

Access in and out of the room is also important

As mentioned up thread homebase/ b&q etc do a free planning service and you don't have to buy their units

We would be getting IKEA to fit the kitchen and as part of that service they come out and check the everything.

It is a good idea to take the existing plan to one of the companies you mention.

Yes it is, they may suggest something you haven't thought of and will also be able to go through all the safety points

Our kitchen has gas hob right next to the wall and also just inside kitchen door and have to say the sky hasn't fallen on our heads yet. It is an ikea kitchen but incredibly badly designed and fitted by previous owners who clearly circumvented the kitchen planner somehow.

Don't ikea do a planning service now? When we had our last kitchen done, I didn't use ikea, precisely because they didn't have a planning service. I have a degree in design, but would never design my own layout. Ergonomics needs to be considered too, as well as safety. Work triangle, entrances and exits and all that

We will go off to proper kitchen designers next week.

I have had another move around and I think I have cracked it now. Doorways are now clear. No long being restricted by gas has helped.

Ikea show you have to use the planner when you go in, they don't do free planning for you. If you are getting the units fitted, they check your plans as part of the service.

I designed my own kitchen layout. I love doing that kind of thing. when the planners came out from b&q and ikea, they each started by telling me why it couldn't be done, then gradually tweaked there own ideas until they matched my original. Honestly, I don't think they're that much better informed than the rest of us, and whatever they call themselves, they are sales people.

You do need to be a bit sensible , and I'd count the gap between hobs and uprights, and the gangway (at least the width of door opening) as part of that. But a lot of the rules are based on what the companies want to sell you... We do fine without a cooker hood AND we have cupboards directly above the hob (~80cm clearance).

On a practical note, it would drive me mad not to have space to put things down (and for elbow room) either side of the cooker, or next to the sink, and obviously more is nicer, but you have to adapt to the space you have: if that's 30cm either side, then so be it. But do make sure you have a decent length of worktop somewhere in your kitchen, at least 60 cm, for food prep. Also, if you're in a narrow space, you need to leave room in front of cupboards to open the buggers and look into them ( preferably 1 m), and that might mean jettisoning a facing run of base units, or using shallower wall cabinets as base units instead. If space is very tight, drawers are much easier to access than low cupboards.

As for the famous rule about the fridge, sink, cooker triangle... Unless they're in a straight line, you tell me how they could be anything BUT a triangle!

Yes they are sales people but some have city & guilds qualifications

Existing kitchens being refitted generally don't need to meet current building regs but its best practise if they do, especially on safety points

Get a professional involved. Most kitchen design services are free and they WILL have a better idea what they are doing than you and also how different pieces of furniture can be made to work in different ways (speaking as a former kitchen designer). I used to get people coming in who'd done their own and ended up with doors that couldn't be opened properly, cupboards that couldn't be reached and all sorts of other crap that could all have been easily avoided. Of course some people came in with clear and very good ideas of their own and I never changed these unless I had good reason to do so, and when I explained the reasoning they always, without fail, agreed with the logic.

Even if you don't like any of the options suggested to you, I'm sure you will absorb a lot of helpful advice along the way.

Speak to Karen at Oneplan. She is fab and is an independent kitchen designer.

Will post her link in a minute.

Yesterday far too much time was spent on the Ikea kitchen planner, and far too much again this morning. I do think I have cracked it, and I thought about the hood and I have removed it now, I have now doesn't work and as you say you manage find without them.

This is what we have now. Hopefully we will not be laughed out of the kitchen planning department.

Wall one. Door going out to hall to the left, tiny gap to wall.
Wall one. Tall unit with electric double oven. fridge freezer.

Wall two. Door going out to garden.
Wall two. 40cm wide tall Wall unit, nothing beneath, I will be putting a kitchen trolley there which can be moved about for access etc. Wall unit 60cm, with the roll up/down option to sit on the worktop, function to hide the kettle/toaster, under is a dishwasher.

Wall three. boiler, window.
Wall three. So the rollup/down unit is attached to wall two with a gap then the dishwasher under resting up to wall three. next you have the boiler on top. Underneath slightly to the side of under the boiler is the sink unit. I have to get pipes boxed in and will do something to make the boiler splash proof. Next is a corner unit.

Wall four. Door out to the hall.
Wall four. I have put two horizontal units up high a little away from the window. Next are two more horizontal units that fit right up to the door. Under is the remaining part of the corner unit and the electric hob, with the little bit of empty space between the hob and doorway, the worktop can be extended.

No problems with doorways or gangways now. Now I know the gas is not going to work the gas restriction wasn't an issue.

Hello ! Thank you LittleRedSquirrel !

Yes I'm an independent designer - ie not a sales person - purely design driven ! I think that makes a difference - I'm aware the mumsnet towers don't like advertising type stuff so I won't say anymore - but if you want to PM me I'm happy to cast an eye over what you have come up with so far !! :-)

Hi Flase

I don't think you need to worry about the planning too much.

I did my kitchen last year. I went to a small local independent kitchen company, they sent a planner round who asked me what I wanted and they did an instant 3D plan on their laptop, I made a few changes then 5 weeks later they came back and did it all for me. I didn't need to plan anything really except deciding what I wanted.

I have a small kitchen. I have put a picture up so you can see how it turned out. I got solid wood doors and worktops, no chipboard, doors were sprayed white. I got my own glass door knobs from John Lewis. I decided to have open shelving above to open the small space up more and ordered shelving mounts from the Oxford Shelving Company online. I ordered tiles from a company online. I got the same kitchen company to do all the planning and all the work, including tiling. It took one week to completely install everything and cost £4,000 in total for everything. I love it.

Really good luck with your kitchen. It is great when it's all done.

happybubblebrain I love your kitchen.

How's it going ?! You didn't get in touch - so I'm hoping that means you got it sorted and checked over in ikea to make sure it's a safe design ?!

:-)