New kitchen - feels like I'm buying double galzing

[WetAugust]

I'm becoming increasingly annoyed at some of the very obscure tactics that some companies are used to ensure as little transparency as possible over the cost of a kitchen!

I've been (very grudgingly) given a price list for one kitchen I liked. Their assumption seemed to be that I just chose what I like regardless of having seen any costs per cabinet and they would give me a price.

Sorry - I like to pock cabinets based on my budget.

Then we come to installation!! There's 'basic' installation. It's half price this week. Then there's additional installation which is full price and for some companies does actually include the kitchen sink.

Why does the quotation to install the same kitchen vary by almost £2K.

Why do I have to pay a substantial 'deposit' which they all tell me is returnable just to get their installer to give me a quote?

Why is there always at least one item or activity missing from the quote as it 'will depend' on

Have been dealing with 2 companies so far - both have the same vague attitude. I am feeling a bit conned.

I just want to know - all inclusive - how much to transform my old kitchen into the new kitchen that they are so keen to draw for me on their computers.

Can I get a straight answer - No!

Where am I going wrong?

go to ikea?

Don't like any of the Ikea kitchens - even if it is sacrilege to say that on here

I felt like this too - in the end, I went to Ikea for the units and splurged elsewhere on the worktop and high end appliances. Pan drawers and larder units are expensive so I went OTT at Ikea just because I could!

It's very difficult to price compare one company to another on a cabinet list

Some price for whole cabinet, some as separate components, end panels, plinths & trim are all planned differently depending on the company

It's much better to look at the cost of the whole and decide if you think it's worth that price

It will always be the most expensive option to get the company that sells you a kitchen to fit it but you have the advantage that its all in house any problems are more easily resolved and the overall time to fit is quicker

A basic fit is fit of the units and work tops (some call a dry fit) a full fit includes the electrics and plumbing, a decorative fit includes tiling and plastering

Wickes quote usually for a dry fit as standard
Wren will quote for a full fit but won't quote for things like under cabinet lighting, wall mounted sockets etc
B&q & homebase will quote for either a full or decorative fit

If the company won't give you a print out of exactly what work is involved at quote stage then steer clear

There are always things that can't be priced from a showroom -condition of ring main/ consumer unit/ earth bonding etc are assessed on site -some companies will assume they need doing and include them in the initial quote do the price doesn't shoot up

Companies charge for technical surveys to stop people eating time getting them to check plans etc then getting someone else to fit them

I was going through this - I was at my wits end.

I am having a bit of a break from it.

I will continue to look on eBay for ex-display etc at least then you know what you are getting and how much it is.

What is really boiling my blood right now is the fact that it is impossible to get corner cupboards that go around a corner and have a door that opens up the whole corner, in a kitchen that isn't tailor made. Grrrr.

Actually Chipping my proposed corner cabinet has one handle - pull it and both doors of the right angle open (as they will be piano hinged).

Alternatively you have 2 x 300 doors with a middle post attached to one and both open.

At the mo I have a carousel - what a waste of space that is. In new kitchen I shall have fixed shelves.

I think a little more transparency on pricing would suit buyer and seller. It would save 'technical visits'. They tried to arrange a technical visit this afternoon just 4 hours after giving me the quote for cabinets plus full installation.

I'm not stupid. I can design a kitchen in rough terms. I just want the pick list of prices so I know the cost of the items I am choosing is affordable.

One company gave me a quotation in their showroom based on my measurements and some photographs I had taken of the existing kitchen - so basically he had most of the info he needed. They then came down to see my kitchen and before he's even stepped into the house he'd knocked £700 off the cost! To me, that destroyed that company's credibility.

wet - I am unable to find a corner unit like that in one of the budget ranges (B&Q, Homebase, Wicks etc). I am probably going to have to rent this place out next year and I don't want to spend a lot of money on the kitchen incase it gets ruined.

I know - getting hold of the price lists is like pulling gold teeth out of chickens.

Yes - the other thing that was pissing me off was 'get a quote off of x and we will beat it' - well no, why should I have to waste other people's time doing a quote just so you can give me a better price. Just give me a decent & fair price FFS.

Chipping

They told me that it would be an adaptation that the installer would make as it's not standard. It's something to do with handles knocking against handles otherwise . Perhaps you could discuss it with the installer?

Yes, this beat the other person's quote is a PITA all round. I just want a fair price that's transparent. I just want a good job done. I don't want to have to haggle.

I look back fondly to 23 years ago when I went to MFI, loaded up my mini with kitchen cabinets and built the thing myself.

wet - Perhaphs I'm 23 years behind you - I'm installing it myself Part of the problem is that the only corner cupboard (the ones that go around the corner, not what they call corner cupboard which I would call 'end' cupboards) is that the only base I could find was 925x925 and they wont fit. I need an L shape really.

I'm going to end up handcrafting the bastard things

you are doing it the wrong way round.

tell them you have 1234£ (your budget minus 25%) and ask them to give you designs in that price range.

Chipping

You should start with the corner and work outwards deciding what else you can fit in.

I was also told that you can actually shave a bit off the backs of the corner cabinet as every cabinet has a 'service duct' area of a few cms depth at the back.

Actually chipping

Could you buy the cabinet you want from the cheapest non-budget range and just put budget doors on it?

Would that work?

Wet - I'm not totally stupid If I had the luxury of starting with the corner cupboards I would! Unfortunately there are things that can't be moved (ie gas meter etc) & they just have to be worked around. The 'working' part of the kitchen is a very small u shape.

I did look at doing just that, but of course because there isn't a unit that size, there aren't any doors that size in the 'cheap' range.

A 925 x 925 or even a 903 x 903 will take 2 x 300 cupboard doors.

page 599 pg Wickes catalogue has 925 x 925 in cream for £140. A 300 base unit with cupboard door from say Miami which is an Essential kitchen is only £35. Others are up to £58 for a 300 base unit. So for between £210 and £258 plus centre post and possibly a coat of paint you can achieve what you want. That's cheapo in my book.

Wet as I said earlier, a 925x925 wont fit (nor a 903x903) :( I need an L the 'short' part of the L of about 150/200.

Bloody gas meter. Bloody walls. Bloody small kitchen. Grrr

Could you compromise and have the long side of the L as one unit which has a door (not ideal I agree as stuff at the back of the cupboard difficult to reach, while the short 150 - 200 side of the L is a wine rack or spice drawers - a different colour /design from a kitchen that has those items for those items would look OK. You can actually get 200 units in one design I'm looking at.

Wet thank you for all your suggestions, I do appreciate it and I'm 'all ears' for any others!

^^ That is what I have now and what I am trying to improve on :( It's such a small kitchen - well, it's not a small kitchen but I have just opened up a walkway through it so 'lost' one wall of bench/cabinets and am left with a smallish u shape. I am trying to claim back those 'lost' corners.

Good luck. Mine's a small U-shaped too. I sympathise! I've gone a bit 'up market' to get a much bigger range of cabinet possibilities. Wickes was discounted pretty early on - but I can see you don't want to spend a fortune when it's going to be rented.

Yes, if I was putting it in for me I'd spend more and be able to get more choice.

It hasn't helped that I wasn't actually going to be doing the kitchen yet, it was 'ok' to rent out, but due to some plumbing needing sorting for the bathroom some of the kitchen cabinets had to come out and I decide to 'open up the walkway' while I was about it.

But having taken them all out, they just looked so tired that I wanted to replace them. I lived overseas for years and proper corner cupboards are a given, I didn't imagine for a minute I'd have this much hassle!

For now I have rearranged the cabinets and put them back in to see if I can live with this u shape and have the benefit of the walkway. If not I can brick up the 'door' and use the other wall as well.

I'm sorting out the windows, the bathroom, a full repaint/new skirtings/replastered ceilings etc as well as working etc - the kitchen is having to take a back seat for a bit, other than looking for ex-display kitchens on eBay when I get a minute, just in case I can get one with corner cupboards!

Bricking up doors ! That's hard core

This is what I did with my L shape corner unit. (sorry if this is boring I have mentioned it on other threads). Ordered one with a fixed shelf but asked them to leave the shelf out of it. (Otherwise the fitter can take it out somehow). Ordered two extra 900mm straight shelves about £10 each. The fitter then cut these shelves to about 400mm front to back and fitted them on the 2 sides of the L, one about 2/3, the other about 1/3 height. (So they only overlap in the corner IYSWIM). This gives you a cupboard where you can see and reach everything and pile up lots of big things like baking trays and woks. To piano hinge the door, buy some piano hinge from B&Q. Attach with screws. Leave the handle off one of the doors.

The kitchen fitters are basically carpenters, units are just made out of chipboard and timber, there's nothing to stop you customising them.

Chip, could you buy just a corner unit carcase from an online supplier and as long as your exdisplay kitchen has a couple of 300 doors, you can match it in. (Our last kitchen went through a couple of mix and match incarnations like this).

Or would reduced depth base units like these give you more options? The corner unit (if shelved) could probably be cut down to a shallower depth in one of its directions.

wet - I'm a girl on a mission... it's only a doorway, how hard can it be but it wont come to that if I can live with the small u kitchen, which I hope I can as the walkway through there solves other issues in the house LOL.

Fossil - I am the kitchen fitter Well, that's not strictly true, I am a diy'er on a serious budget for this unexpected project so I am attempting to fitting the kitchen. I don't have room for a 900x900 base unit and yes, I could cut the units down, but then I need to find a kitchen that has a smaller door. I might be able to find one that has a spice pull out or something that I can use to hinge but frankly, I'm praying I find a more expensive range that has an L unit already and can get it at a knock down price. Fingers crossed.

Try diy kitchens. You can design it yourself and see the cost of everything separately

Just had a look at that web site, why oh why, do they all only do 900x900 why not L shaped?? They say L shaped but they aren't they are - half an x shaped. Grrr

Fossil I don't understand how a shallower depth would help