Are we being stupid? Renovation spend

[LittleMilla]

Final costs now in for knocking thru kitchen diner, plus other work to install a utility room and pantry.

All in its going to be £33k. We know the top whack value for our property (only bought it last summer) and this will push us £10k over what we could recoup.

This is the tricky bit. It's our 5-10 year home and we've got no plans to move. We could prob do it all for £10k cheaper if we didn't go for all the nicities - stone floor underfloor heating, range etc. but we're doing this to LIVE in not sell.

Are we being stupid?

No not at all. 5-10 years is still a relatively long time and you will be getting to enjoy your life in it more while you're there for the money. What value do you place on that?

Yes. Bit ott for 5 yrs that might spring longer. Completely ott if ur doing underfloor heating and that level of nice. That's fluff done for either ur long term 10+ or a property sell on ( and only if money can be added).

5yrs is short. Buy a nice radiator instead.

Range different in my view. If ur wondering

In short, yes!

How does that compare to the value of your house? How are you funding it?

If your house cost 100k as ours does i'd say you were crazy to spend 33k, if it's 500k not so much.

I know you intend to stay long term but can you afford to write off some money if you find you have to move?

Bought it for 380k. Using 15k of savings and borrowing remainder from family. It's a 3 bed (with potential for fourth bedroom in loft- next project in a few years!). We've tarted up everything else in house, also rewired everything except kitchen & dining room. Spent about £5k thus far.

Yes, we could go cheaper on the floor. But DH and I really love stone floor. And the feeling is that unless we want to have slippers on the whole time we'd be remiss not to have underfloor. However, it's an old house so there's extra costs re insulating cavity, levelling floor etc.

Looking at recent sales we'd get £415k max back. Este agents say that without fourth room we're limited. But for our family needs right now (ds is almost 2 and ds2 due in July) an open plan living space is what we need.

we spent about that on an extension on a 200k house. Also sunk 10k into de-open-planning the living room and creating a small third bedroom out of a very large first bedroom. We may only break even but we have definitely extended the time we can comfortably live in the house and the enjoyment of doing so.

I also utterly LOVE my underfloor heating.

Will you do the 4th bedroom at some point? If that's the plan, you need to factor the cost and net gain of this work too in order to work out whether to spend £23k or £33k.

So if your loft conversion costs £30k but means you could sell for £500k as long as your kitchen was top spec, and a basic spec kitchen would get you £470k, then yes it's worth it. If however your £30k loft conversion will only get you £475k with a top spec kitchen, or £470k with a basic spec one then no it's not worth doing.

Yes, plan to do the fourth bedroom once we've paid back this project! Probably a few years' time and unless something forced us to sell sooner, before we'd move again.

I was probably being short sighted re how long we'll be here. We have three outstanding rated primary schools nearby and so the intention is for DS to do his primary years here. He'll be two in may.

We are first time buyers (having missed the first rung of the ladder) and I think that we've bought fairly wisely. Good area that is certainly getting better with great schools and decent stock of family homes. We don't want to bank anything on prices going up hence being cautious. However, we don't want to compromise so much that we're not happy....

Milla, I think some of it depends on whether the space at the end will look right for a 4 bed property. When we sold our last we didn't knock through/extend as we weren't planning on converting the loft. As you plan to make your house 4 bed you should think about whether downstairs will be in proportion. Also if you are going to sell in 5ish years you want things that won't have worn out/look like they need replacing by then, IYSWIM. (I'm not stalking you, honest, we're just prepping the house to sell and I'm getting ideas!)

Are you actually extending? I'm not sure if that's what you mean about the utility room and pantry. If just renovating £33k seems a lot so assume it's an extension? I'll go slightly against the grain and say that I don't think every improvement or renovation to your house should be seen in terms of whether you'll recoup the cost. So, £10k over recoupable costs over 5 year min term = £2k per year to live in a house you really like. Maybe look at it like that?

It's your home, do what will mean you'll enjoy living there. It's not all about investment.

. Come over so we can discuss this, please!!

Doing what we're doing will create two living spaces. Traditional lounge/sitting room and then open plan kitchen/diner with room for a sofa.

We're knocking down a wall and converting our scullery in to a proper utility room (it's almost derelict at the mo). Also converting space under stairs in to a pantry. And replacing windows in bay for French doors.

So not extension per se, but a fair amount of reconfiguring space. And we'll have two fairly hefty rsjs going in.

How many quotes have you had? It does sound very expensive for that level of work

It depends if you are happy to write off the money or not, my parents spent waaaaay over the value on our old family home, they've since moved but it's still a bitter pill, it's hard to understand how someone gets all the lovely stuff you've done for more than free.

Had a 30ft sq. kitchen and underfloor heating was well worth money. I always think house is my home I want to live in it. As long as I could afford it I'd spend what I like. If you feel uneasy about it then cut costs. I wouldn't have a range I can never understand the attraction of bending down to get heavy things from oven.!!

I am in the process of getting another quote as we have been slightly silly in going with one highly recommended builder. We knew from the outset he wouldn't be cheapest but this is now 10k more than we'd thought. But everyone has said that costs will double from initial quotes.

I don't know the full extent of the work but it does sound expensive. We knocked through, installed an rsj, replaced a window with french doors, installed new electrics (sockets and lights) and moved a gas pipe for about 2k

Have you got a full breakdown of costs, so you can see how much labour is costing versus materials etc.?

I like birds - this includes everything. No new kitchen, flooring, appliances etc.

It's 35 sqm in total. Expense seems to be that we've gone for timber doors and because we're in a Victorian house they're being made etc.

Saying all of the above I AM getting another quote. Whilst we've spent a lot of time with this builder and I don't question the quality of his work, my fear is that we're getting the best of everything and could make savings.

God, it's all so bloody stressful.

I don't know. It all adds up quickly and then there are all the little jobs you didn't anticipate along the way which add to your total bill. We are renovating and what we thought was going to be about 35k (not an extension, not RSJ's) is creeping more closely to 45k. And we've not had any underfloor heating, but have had new (very good) boiler and new rads, kitchen, bathroom, cloakroom, new floors throughout and doorways knocked through. This is our forever home though and we got it for a good price - so we would expect to gain all the money back if we had to sell. It is a tough choice. I don't think I'd do real luxuries like underfloor heating if it wasn't a forever house - 5 years does go really fast. If you are talking about being there for your DCs primary years, then maybe if you think it will add to the quality of your life. I will say we've just had stone floors put in an old house and they are much warmer than the porcelain tiles there before. May be because the house is actually warm with the new boiler and rads!

over the top for 5 years, fair enough for 15 years

That sounds really expensive! The RSJs should only be 2-4k on their own.

Here's the quote:

Demolition £500
New dividing wall to extension £400
Structural openings to French doors £680
Structural openings to Kitchen only £1650
Structural opening to extension £150
Larder renovation £800
Timber sash windows (bedroom & Kitchen) £2980
Timber French Doors £2450
Floor renovation Comprising: £7544
UFH, Insulation, floorboards to dinning and kitchen area
Tiling to dinning, kitchen and larder room
Laying oak floor from kitchen to WC
Back Door £600
Enlarging opening under staircase (provisional) £200
Block existing kitchen entrance £125
Work to fireplaces (provisional) £450
Decorating Renovated areas including removal of wall paper £1300
Making good to walls, ceiling and skirting
Building regulation fee £309
Structural Engineer fee (one beam) £120
Kitchen units £4700
Kitchen installation including appliances connections £1440
Kitchen worktop £2200
Total cost of Renovation £28,598

We are then spending £2.5k on appliances and we've been quoted £1.5k by sparky to rewire everywhere that's having work (we did remainder of the house when we moved in) and also adding in sockets, light fittings etc.

Any thoughts on this are very welcome and I hope I don't sound like a nobber adding this up! Just really need opinions. ALso got the details for another builder who I;m going to get over ASAP for a second opinion...

Hmm, it's basically the flooring and the windows isn't it? We looked at timber French doors so I know the price you've quoted there is actually very reasonable. What appliances are you getting for £2.5k

The individual bits still look expensive, I know we're generally in a cheap place but I wouldn't have expected such a difference.

£680 for structural opening for French doors?

We paid £900 for similar, of which £600 pounds was the cost of the doors. It took two guys about 4 hours to do. Mind you, the highest quote we had for the same bit of work was £2100