How much might 'modernising' a property cost realistically - any tips?

[themachinist]

I know its probably how long is a piece of string... but wondered if anyone could help as a result of recent experience?

I am looking at houses (mostly 4 bed terraces/semis, but with largish rooms) at the moment that you might describe as needing updating or modernising (if you were an estate agent) rather than totally gutting.

They mostly need a new kitchen, a new bathroom, a jungle of a garden rehacking, and new decor throughout - imagine houses lived in by OAPs for a loooong time. Am not talking reroofing/rewiring, new windows, just totally stuck in 70s.

How much do you think I need to factor in for this sort of upgrade?

I know it depends on quality, brand, size etc, but if we were talking an average size kitchen and bathroom, and going for mid range items. The last time I had a (very small) kitchen fitted, about 7 years ago, I paid about 5k all in, and did it on the cheap. Friends think I could do it for a similar amount now, but am unsure looking around on the internet.

Would £25k be enough to do the whole house out? Kitchen, bathroom, decor, garden, possibly a couple of fireplaces too?

Any ideas, tips, experience?

I am useless at DIY so that isnt an option BTW.

Thanks folks!

Gosh it's really hard to give a ballpark figure - you might get a survey done and discover it needs a new roof, or some structural work.

Also bear in mind many 50s/60s/70s homes have inadequate wiring for 21st century living, and what is there could well be dangerous or illegal.

My friend did a 'basic' refurb on a 3 bed semi that needed completely gutting and doing out for 20 grand including windows, kitchen and bathroom, carpets and decorating but he is a qualified gas engineer and electrician as well as a general handyman (plastering etc) so saved himself a fortune in labour.

If you can't do any of it yourself the 25,000 could well be eaten up by labour costs before you've even bought the fixtures and fittings, but then if you know a decent cheap labourer it will keep costs down.

Hmmm think £25 is optomisitic especially if you need to pay someone to do all the work.

I (not personally!) modernised a 3 bed end of terrace and it cost about £60k (tbh I stopped counting after £55k.

This is a rough breakdown:

New central heating system £7k
New bathroom £6.5k
New kitchen £12k (including all appliances)
Rewiring £4.5k
Re plastering £3k
Decorating £1.2k
Replacing skirting £1k
Other carpentry (replacing a few doors/shelves) £1k
2x reclaimed fireplaces £1.2k
New carpets £2.2k
Garden clearing and basic landscaping £5k
Miscellaneous (curtain poles/door knobs/door locks/light fitting etc) £2k+
I know there was loads more...er
Damp proof course £600
underfloor heating in kitchen £800

We also had our cellar converted which was an extra £10k

I know you have said you don't need some of the above stuff but bear in mind for example that if your kitchen hasn't been touched since the 70's it will almsot certainly need rewiring for a new kitchen. Rewiring will mean replastering and so it goes on....

I can't imagine getting it all done for you for less than 50k.

We are currenting refurbing a 3-bed 50s semi which has been lived in by OAPs for a loooong time and then was empty for a year - probably not modernised since the 70s at the earliest. So far we have spent £1580 on complete rewiring (which definitely needed doing, plus there was usually only one plug socket per room) and have been quoted £3,300 for complete replumb, new bathroom (we provide suite) and new boiler. Seems good value compared to post above! We are not bothering with damp proof course and hoping to do most decorating ourselves. We are in NW/Cheshire area if that helps.

We have a 1950's 3 bed semi, also in cheshire. We've spent:
£1500 on socket rewiring (didn't need lighting rewiring).
Will need a new boiler at some point, probably will be another £1200.
Need lead to plastic water mains change, £300.
Garden £300 on skips, turf, some scaffolding boards for raised beds and greenhouse panels. Not bought any plants, doing it all with seeds. Done all the work ourselves. Its very hardwork!
Carpets/flooring - £800 living room, £400 each bedroom, £250 kitchen
Driveway - £400 but only hardcore, not nice finish.
Decorating - £100 per room roughly and doing it ourselves, so materials only
Damp proof - £1200 quoted but ended up not needing as found the source of the damp and fixed the problem.
Light fittings - £100min per room if not just pendant and lightshade.
Curtains - Re-using a lot but if you can't (like we can't on most of our windows) then you are looking at a minimum of £100 per window and it really depends on size but you could easily spend upwards of £300 if they're big windows.
Windows - We've had to replace some windows (not frames) and they're in the region of £75 per window but again depends on window size.
Doors - Front door £1200, back door £450.
Kitchen - £5000 without appliances
Bathroom - Quoted £5000
Loft boarding - £200 (materials only)

You mention fireplaces - We've had quotes for doing our living room and it was £2500 and we weren't looking at expensive firesurrounds and grates etc.

Ooh rebl, that's very helpful for me

Should have been £1780 for our rewiring

I thought about you the other day DitaVonCheese. I drove past where I thought you bought and someone was pulling out of the road and I wondered if it was you. It was D-H / H area wasn't it?
at your rewire. I wasn't impressed with ours as it was and now I'm even more unimpressed.
Who has quoted you for the bathroom and boiler? I might contact them as we need to do that and will be next after the extension.

We've just done a 4 bed detached for about £25,000 but haven't touched the garden. Haven't had to do anything structural, just literally stripped everything out & replaced all the décor. Biggest surprise expense definately the bathrooms. We've probably spent as much on main bathroom & ensuite together as on the kitchen. We move in on weds! It's been stressful but worth it, good luck!

:) Rebl could have been me - was it a big green VW estate, full of crap? Yep, we're (or will be) in H, though that was before I saw D-H - gorgeous but we can't afford to buy there

Rewire was supposed to be mates' rates, which helps, though should have said that we got all the materials separately to save ££ and that was another £400-odd, so actually over £2,000 for the rewire - does that help?

Plumber (who is also Gas Safe qualified) is a man called Keith who came recommended by our baby signing teacher, who said she couldn't recommend him highly enough. Contact nos are 01925 231845 or 07984 696544. We got quotes off him and someone off ratedpeople.com but got a much better vibe from him and he quoted slightly cheaper (though that was for copper and plastic pipes rather than copper throughout). It includes removing a gas fire and back boiler so hope it's a reasonable quote - it seemed quite a lot to me but feeling better after reading this thread!

OK, can't work out how to send you a message. Been on your profile but doesn't seem to be anywhere to click to send you a message. Maybe thats not how you do it.

How funny! We might well come along to your classes then if we ever manage to conceive DC2! It's not S&S though, think it's Baby Talk but my mind has completely gone - it's the other main one other than S&S, teacher's initials are TM.

I think you can contact me by clicking "Contact poster" above my posts but you'll need to have paid your CAT fee (I am far too cheap for this! ). You can email me at jennie stevenson at gxxglemail dxt cxm if you want (hope you can make sense of that, trying to avoid spambots!).

Have you sent me a confusing email or have I just got some unusual spam?!

I would say do not go to the expense of putting in new kitchens and bathrooms and redecorating if you are not prepared to rewire, redamp-proof, new heating system etc as I think that is short term thinking. Any house not updated since the 70's has 40 year old electrics etc, kitchens/bathrooms/decorating does not come cheap and it would be a shame to spend all that money to have to remove a kitchen, which will result in damage, because you have not improved the heating and what not.

Find a friendly local builder (recommendations are good), and go for a 2nd/3rd viewings with him for quotes. We've done this several times, and he's been AMAZING at spotting problems but also thinking of cheaper solutions to stuff we thought we'd need to do.

Agree with those saying that you should factor in rewiring and plumbing -- we are doing up a very similar house right now and we needed a rewire just for safety's sake. Our gas supply to the kitchen also proved to be unsafe, and had to be cut off (it was that or pneumatic drilling the floor up, and that was a step too far right now). We also have a lead pipe bringing water into the property which needs to be replaced.

A full plaster skim was really essential in our house, even though that is not necessarily obvious when you first look at a place which just looks dated. Bear in mind that people didn't necessarily put up polystyrene ceiling tiles or vinyl tile-effect wallpaper because they liked it, but because they wanted to hide something and it was easier than fixing it . Our ceilings were sound, but had sooty cracks in, and we ended up reboarding those before plastering as apparently they had been painted with distemper and a skim straight over might have fallen off eventually . So that was an extra £600 or so. I give that as an example of the kinds of middle-sized costs which get tacked on quite quickly, and mount up.

Some jobs are quite easy but time consuming (e.g. stripping wallpaper) and doing those yourself would really help with the budget.

Costs quoted by others match what we have found (except DVC's bargain plumbing ).

If you're thinking in terms of adding value for eventual resale (which you may not be, of course), then bear in mind that the fact that all these fundamental things (wiring, heating) have been recently overhauled is probably a much greater attraction than the fact that the cosmetics have been fixed. As SaggyHA says, the fact that you would have to inflict damage on new kitchens and bathrooms to remedy old wiring and plumbing would be very frustrating both for you and any future owner.

Reading this back, I sound a bit earnest and stern, but I'm actually really loving it, so I hope you'll tell us all about it if you go ahead . Do you have your sights on a particular property?

Wow, some excellent posts here, thanks so much. Great to get the breakdowns of costs.

I have my eye on a handful of properties, North Wales area. I would prefer not to have to do this type of work, but its looking like a financial necessity in terms of level of mortgage I can get and needing to stagger capital output over the next couple of years (when some other money frees up, long story!). I would intend to do the work over 18 months or so.

Some very different prices quoted here too. I would def get a builder in for second viewings, and would probably steer clear of anything that needed much more than cosmetic work.

I think the properties may have actually been worked on since the 70s, but just look horrific. The kitchens tend to be liveable, but you really wouldnt want to spend much time in them. Again, decor all borders, flowers, etc, which would need stripping and un-fancyfying!

A difficulty is that we are looking at relocating, so viewing involve a 2 hr drive!

I will post links to any real potentials after the next wales trip.

Thanks again

One thing to add is that we are just about to get our loft converted and the quote we got for this now is a lot less than the quote we got three years ago.

The builder said everyone is much competitive because there is so much less work in our area (Surrey/SW London) the builders really want it.

I don't suppose any of the contractors recommended on here are near the Hertfordshire/ N London area are they? We are trying to line up a team for our house and it doesn't seem to be that easy round here. Thanks

Already spent 100k + (stopped counting) on a 5 bedroom Edwardian and only half way there. About to spend 15k on family bathroom and ensuite. Kitchen not done yet. Also garage extension (for utility and storage and play) not done yet. Also redecorating rest of upstairs not done yet. Problem with old period houses is that you often have to rip everything out and the more you do the more problems you find. So it very much depoends on the age of the house and whether you can get away with superficial re-decoration.

Wish that I had been more aggressive with the price at purchase- that is the key.

Hope it goes well for you.

..included rewiring, re-plumbing, new floors, insulating and replastering some walls........

I'm watching this thread as we have just bought a 1960s four-bed which needs updating.

We have so far had the fusebox replaced (£200) to make the electrics safe. The electrician thought a full rewire wasn't necessary - although the wiring is 45 years old so I guess we'll have to do it at some point?

We had planned to do the place up slowly (room by room) while the DCs are small - though we have to tackle the bathroom urgently as it is leaking. Can rewiring be done on a room-by-room basis, or does it need to be a total house job? (Sorry to hijack the thread with questions.) I didn't want to spend thousands on decorating then have to rewire at a later date.

cath, if you need rewiring done in my experience it'd best to get it over and done with as part of the basics. It can be a biggish, messy job with floorboards up, chiselling of walls upto sockets (depending on layout and size of property). Although if you trust your electrician and he is happy that it doesn't need doing than I really wouldn't bother tbh.

Rewiring can be done on a room by room basis! Depending on where your fuse box is you may want to do rooms in a particular order to minimise disruption, but there's no need to put in every extra socket right up front.

In fact I wouldn't advise it if you are planning on leaving the decoration of a room until later. It could look a bit ugly until you've redone the finishing.