Possible SEN discrimination after child moved down maths set at school

[Meforthree]

Does anyone have any experience with SEN needs discrimination? Our DC is in year 6 at a relatively selective school with documented slow processing and dyslexia but regularly scores 129ish in maths assessments.

He has now been moved out of the top maths set (the lower sets do less challenging work) after having a teacher who was very noticeably resistant to making SEN adjustments for him - and given those grades, (which put him in the 97th percentile nationally) the only thing I can think is they equate his slower pace with lower cognitive ability. Surely this is discrimination?

No, that's not how it works.

Think of your brain as a computer. The top-set child with normal processing speed has the file in their computer and can retrieve it quickly.

The child with slow processing speed also has the full file in their computer, but it takes 20 seconds longer to retrieve it.

The child in the set below might be a child who hasn't fully understood or learned the concept, so may only have part of the file, or no file at all.

That's the difference. Slow processing doesn't mean the information or understanding isn't there. It just means it takes longer to access it and get it out.

That child might actually be the mathematically strongest child in the whole class. Should they really be set less challenging work simply because it takes them 20 seconds longer to produce the correct answer? Especially when they are often capable of getting the answer right first time round.

@Meforthreecan you give an example of how the teacher gives him longer to process a topic without holding the rest of the class back?

Does being in a lower set prevent him from achieving the same grades? It might be they cover different and / or slightly less challenging work but if the kids can still achieve the same grades, then perhaps there is no issue? It might actually be for his benefit

My DS has a different disability with processing issues. In case it helps he was in the third out of five sets for maths for his GCSE. Still smashed it. He just needed the lessons not to go 1000 miles an hour, but he always got the harder work, and spent time on it at home to make sure he was always on top of the material. Can he get that kind of adjustment, ie don’t expect him to finish everything in the lesson but must be done that week. That was where we ended. And it really was worth doing lots of the same type of problems to consolidate as much as the NT children?

I mean despite my earlier answer this is interesting and I have time for it. But my concern is that the school’s approach really is: “slower equals less able”. And that (in in my DC’s case anyway) absolutely isn’t the case, and he is 100pc being sent the message (in this, and also other examples) that he is less, and I want to help him realise (and also, frankly, the school realise) that this isn’t the case at all.

I think you should absolutely speak with the school about how they are going to ensure he is working at the right level, whilst adapting to his learning needs. However, I personally would avoid labelling this as SEN discrimination - which feels very heavy handed. As his mum, I would want to focus on developing his self-esteem and resilience so that small set backs don't throw his confidence. Schools and teachers are doing their very best to make sure that every child reaches their potential. Streaming is part of this. They will want your son to be in the top group, provided he's capable of beng there. Yes- I totally agree you should speak with them and advocate for him but you will get further with them if you take a collaborative approach.

Actually you are wrong. Unless this kid is going to work in pharmacy in ICU and is going to have to work out drug ratios at lightening speed to get the drugs into patients before they pass away, he does not need to do his maths fast.

If he is capable of learning complex maths, then he absolutely should be taught complex maths. Denying him that chance on the basis that he is slower, is not only unreasonable, but ILLEAGAL discrimination on the grounds of disability. It is not reasonable to move him down, he needs to be given support to learn the level of maths he is capable of learning.

In GCSEs, students may get extra time on exams EVEN ON HIGHER LEVEL PAPERS, because even exam boards recognise that capable does not always equate to fast.

OP, as someone with a disability who achieved a B in a high level paper with 50% extra time due to physical disabilities, please make very sure that school know that school must accommodate your son in the top maths set unless there is an intellectual reason not to!

Thank you so much for explaining this so clearly. It’s so distressing watching the misunderstanding of this in real time. Honestly, I understand it. I was highly academic and I’m pretty sure when I was younger I looked down on anyone who needed accommodations until I saw my highly able DC be so obviously deeply clever, so long as small adjustments were made. I was wrong earlier in my life. People just don’t understand this stuff.

It's actually frustrating reading the comments you've received when you've been absolutely clear about the challenge your DC faces and the small adjustments needed to support his learning. I think you should contact the school to question their decision because it doesn't make sense that he should be put down a set when he clearly excels at the subject.

Just seen your most recent update. If the school is making him feel that he "is less" because he has slower processing or has been moved down a set, this is a much bigger issue than being moved to a lower stream and doesn't reflect well on the culture and ethos of the school at all...

Practically though, doesn’t slow processing usual mean dc acquires new knowledge more slowly? In which case just doing fewer questions won’t be enough to help dc keep up with the pace

I found this really nice explanation online:

Think of intelligence as a large bucket and processing speed as a funnel. A child with high intelligence has a massive bucket, meaning they can hold and understand highly complex ideas. However, if they have slow processing speed, the funnel leading into that bucket is narrow.
If a teacher pours information in too quickly, the narrow funnel overflows, and the child misses pieces—not because their bucket is too small, but because the input rate was too fast.

Interestingly, because these children must work harder and more deliberately to master new concepts, they often develop deep analytical skills, strong critical thinking, and high resilience. Once they catch up, their grasp of the concept is often incredibly thorough because they had to build the mental pathway so carefully.

But if the teacher is going to keep pouring information into the funnel too fast, your dc won’t catch up…

Prioritising the pace over ability is precisely the problem.

Thank you

It’s called the Equality Act 2010. He isn’t being denied access to an appropriate curriculum because of a disability. Until you have contacted the school for clarification, you don’t know why he’s been moved to a different group.
I’m assuming he’s in a private school as you’ve said he attends a ‘relatively selective’ school.
What specific assessments has he already done? Did he have any access arrangements when he did those assessments?

yes, you’re in a private school thread.

And yes, that was just a typo, I do know it’s the Equalities Act 2010 and have already contacted the school for clarification. My query is related not to unqualified rage, but to ask Mumsnet users for their opinion (as to whether it’s discrimination, and also just generally for empathy) before I go in to talk to school. My experience of the school is that they tend to be very vague. In addition to which no school is obviously going to say, well, yes of course we have broken the law (or indeed, this is obviously morally and/or legally wrong) hence me trying to gauge option here first.

From the school’s perspective, moving him to the lower set is probably a reasonable adjustment for his disability. They will be covering the same stuff at a slower pace. The alternative seems to be keeping him at the top set while having to prepare different (higher or lower level, fewer) questions and having the teacher having to accommodate his slower style of learning. There may be many kids (who aren’t disabled) in the second set who are equally intelligent as the top set but suit a slower pace of learning.

They aren’t covering the same stuff. They are covering less challenging stuff.

With respect you are the one who appears to have misunderstanding. Discrimination has a specific meaning in law. It’s not just someone doing something you don’t like. If you think he’s been discriminated against ie direct discrimination, indirect discrimination, discrimination arising from disability, a failed to make reasonable adjustments or harassment then properly put together your assertions and speak to the school. Merely stating “discrimination” doesn’t mean anything.

There's no such thing as preparing fewer questions. The pupil just does fewer of the prepared questions. And, as if by magic, you have a reasonable adjustment.

I would echo what the OP has said about processing speed vs understanding speed. I have a DD2 like this - similarly diagnosed. For example, we couldn't get her times table recall anywhere near DD1's times, she just plateaued. But she's generally the most able in her class at maths. In primary school she was often allowed to skip the teacher input part of the lesson because she already understood the material. What she really didn't need was longer/slower explanations, which is what a lower set would offer.

I completely agree it doesn’t just mean me disliking something and stating it. I have, however, stated very clearly the possibility of a child have been discriminated against on the basis of a (SEN) disability and asking about people’s view of the facts. Perhaps you don’t know that diagnosed SEN needs are a disability under the law? They are.

In my school and in the College where I work, the highest set cover the higher paper allowing for higher grades... which it is NOT possible to get if you are in lower sets studying only lower paper material.

If the lower se really covers everything the higher set covers at a slower pace, you would be right, but I doubt it. The school are failing to give OPs child access to work suitable for his academic ability because his processing speed is slower than other children of the same ability, This is NOT ok. It is blatant disability discrimination.

We cannot possibly say if your son has been discriminated against, and neither can you until you’ve had a conversation with school and established why your son has been moved into a different set.

It doesn’t matter what the law says, you cannot interpret it until you’ve have this information.

In all honesty I wouldn’t rock the boat in an independent if you are happy with the majority of his lessons etc. As if you push too much at certain schools they can off roll. Maybe you need to look around other independents if they are not very flexible regards Sen at the school (it will only get worse the older he gets) some schools are more inclusive for Sen kids. As the head understands Sen and it filters down to the senco etc. Equally is he on a Sen register / EHCP as that is potentially more law binding but then it’s a tribunal and stress which in all cases you probably wouldn’t want to send the kid to that school anyways.

Maybe someone has moved up a set and had a tutor over summer. As ultimately you don’t know what scores every other child is getting.

Discrimination is a hard one with independents. Plus governors are generally on the side of the head.

Maybe ask the senco to try and get her input about your concerns.

Ultimately they will have a reason why they have moved him down and sometimes particular teachers don’t like sen kids as that is potentially more work for them and they just like NT “easier kids” (only speaking as a mum and my kid with Sen)

it is a harsh reality of some teachers in some independents. If they are not prepared to work with you / your child you need to take your cash and find another school that will be more helpful.

Good luck

I don’t see it as discrimination, I see it as meeting his needs.

Everyone will be taught the same curriculum in year 6. But some classes will race through the curriculum faster than others. Hence the differences in homework etc.

Your DS has slower processing and therefore has been placed in a maths set the runs through the curriculum at a slower pace than the top set.

I would encourage your DS to not focus on sets and just focus on test results otherwise secondary school will be very painful for both of you.

Yes, but not in year 6! That’s only in GCSE years for children who are struggling with the content. Not for those who have slow processing only. They would just be given extra time.