visiting a primary school - what should i look for/ask?

[kissmummy]

My DS will be going to school in september 2011 and we've arranged to go and have a look round our local primary school. it's rated "Good" by Ofsted. we're being offered a chat with the headmistress. as a first time parent this is all new to me and i'd love advice/tips on what i should look for when assessing the school etc and the sort of questions to ask the headmistress. Our little boy was a summer baby and will only just have turned four when he starts school. we live in south west london in a nice area where the schools are all quite good but are over subscribed.

The first thing is to go and visit the school and just literally "feel" whether you like the atmosphere in the school.

Firstly is it actually the head who sees you and shows you round - big plus for me if they do, big negative if the job is given to someone in the office.

As you walk around are you allowed to go everywhere or are you just shown the best bits. What is the atmosphere like, do the children seem happy and working well or is it total chaos. Please note though that reception class is foundation stage based on play, so there will be some noise and movement of kids.

I would ask the head about your child being a summer birth and see what advice the head has on this. How reassuring are they on the fact that your child will fit in. I would also ask about admissions and how over-subscribed the school gets, to see what is said.

The final thing I would say is not to rely on OFSTED reports or friend's comments but go on your gut feeling, what will be the best school for my child.

Personally I'd take your child and see how they react too.

My DD has just started reception this year and things I wish I had known to ask before hand were

how many TA's are there in each class? Are they full time? (some schools have a couple on reception but then dwindle to shared TA's later on in the school)

What is your policy on bullying (I found this quite a useful question to see how it was explained to me - one Head teacher literally could not tell me anything at all despite there being posters all over the school!!)- this just helps you get a sense of the ethos of the school.

Definitely ask about what support they give for summer babies - again it is useful to see the response to get a general feel of how the school works.

Good luck!

By admission Sat 01-May-10 18:07:12

Firstly is it actually the head who sees you and shows you round - big plus for me if they do,

we usually ask older children to show visitors around then back to chat to the head interesting you'd see it as a negative

Have to agree with admission. I think it shows how involved and supportive the head is when he/she shows you round and gives a very good impression. When we looked round ds school the head took us unto every classroom, introduced us to all the teachers mid lesson, every nook and cranny and she really cared that we saw the school and came away with a good impression. It was also great we could ask any question we thought of as we went round and could be answered there and then. I just don't see how an older pupil could do this.

Ask how much they need to be able to do for themselves, getting dressed after pe, shoes and coats on. How many ta's. Is there a nursery nurse for reception, how many children in each class. Good post as I wish I'd had some pointers.

I really agree with the point made about the atmosphere and ambience of the school - you can get a good feel for it from this. The best time for this is playtime/lunchtime when the children are in the playground, all years mixed.

Thats when you can really see how they interact with each other - and another really important factor IME - how respectful the older children are to the younger ones. A school that encourages a respect for all pupils is important in my book.

Educationally, check the pupil/teacher/TA ratio and additional resources available for extra needs. Check after school activities and sports facilities.

Consider how the ethos of the school fits your own and your child's needs.

CharlieBoo as I said the children show visitors around and they can actually talk about a great deal from personal experience and also from involvement in the school council. The children know all the staff and are quite capable of introductions and love the responsibility. Parents always comment how it is a good introduction and gives a very positive impression of the school and the pupils.
Afterwards parents/visitors have seen the school they can spend as long as they want asking the head questions

Mmmm, I have been round a school that does this and the children are obviously 'hand picked' iykwim.

They can speak on personal experience but they won't be able to answer more complex questions and by the time you see the head you may simply have forgotten them. I wouldn't see it as a plus personally.

Agree about the head taking you round. You can get a feel for the rapport between teachers and HT and also how the children react to him or her. Also you get to hear whether they can name the children who approach!

I would ask about lunchtimes and whether the majority bring lunches or have school dinners. Whether the children mix with the older children at playtime. Expectations of independence - toiletting, dressing etc. If your child has health concerns what procedures do they have in place. Do they welcome parent helpers. Does reception have it's own toilets. Look at the security of the site in general and the reception outside area. Normal amount of adults in the classroom. The start times and hours during the first term - staggered starts vary around the country enormously!

Sorry - my questions were specifically about reception!

we went round a few very recently and I adapted a list from another MNer which I'll post.

The main thing for us for all schools was the head, the way they were with us and DS and the way they interacted with the children. That was huge - much much more than anything else tbh.

The list is:
Teachers - interaction with children
School - tidy and well cared for?
Children's work displayed?
Children ? working, cooperating, concentrating
Class size and teaching assistance
Curriculum
Bullying/buddying schemes
Homework
Reading schemes and bringing books home.
Extra curricular activities and trips
Sport/facilities/equipment
IT
Music
Languages
Science
PTA
Why right for child
How compares to other local schools
Meals
How would you rate our chances of being successful if we apply?

how is lunchtime managed? A good school will have reception in for lunch 20 mins before the rest of the school, in order that all available adults can help the wee ones.

Can you summer DS defer for a year? Can he go p/t until Easter?

Do they implement the Disability Discrimination Act with regard to toileting?

Emotional maturity - if a child is having behavioural probs, do they work with the parents to ensure the child is being parented well at home? (or is the child labelled as a brat and a problem in reception with no effort to confront the parents? This is my huge beef with schools)

what are the bad weather options for lunchtime and breaks? Do the kids just get dumped in front of a DVD?

CharlieBoo most of the type of questions being suggested here could easily be answered by any of our Y6 children
class size - tick
classroom assistants - tick
reading books - tick
school meals - tick
extra curricular - tick
bullying/buddy systems- tick
sport - tick
ICT - tick
facilities - tick
homework- tick
behaviour - tick
PTA/Friends of the school - tick (there are student reps who put suggestions forward for how funds can be used)
teachers - I'm sure you will get an honest opinion
you would probably get a totally biased answer to how it compares to other schools as they think theirs is best
but you can look up results in league table and Ofsted reports for comparisons otherwise I doubt even an adult could give an accurate response.

I think that most children will give a much more honest and open reply to questions than you would probably get from an adult.

Highlander our reception children used to go in 20mins before the older children and we found this unsatisfactory as it meant they were outside for a very long time afterwards (especially in winter) now they have a short lunchtime play outdoors while older children have lunch then go in when the hall is empty and have another short playtime after lunch

Atmosphere. Do kids look happy? Do teachers look relaxed?

What's the Head like? Does the Ofsted talk about strong leadership?

Analyse the Ofsted in more depth - what are the good/outstanding features? Is there 'Value added'? Where does the school need to improve? Think about how important these aspects are to you and whether you'd like to clarify anything with the Head.

What do other parents say? (take with pinch of salt, but might be useful).

mrz, we asked about TAs in two 'outstanding' schools, interestingly both referred to children with SENs in their answer but they couldn't have been more different

1st school: oh yes and in this classroom we have a teacher and a TA. She's meant to be for a little girl with Down's Syndrome but she doesn't need her, so we just make general use of her.

2nd school: That class has a teacher and a TA. The TA is for a boy with severe autism. He's learning to read, doing really well - we're very proud of him.

They might be able to answer generically but I would question the detail and accuracy, especially any questions relating to the curriculum/specific questions on reception. Tbh regardless of whether they could or not I would want the head to do it. It looks good and gives a great impression. Sorry.

I agree with all the general points made here, and especially with the one about reading Ofsted carefully. In the school we picked for our child, rated outstanding, however Ofsted said "more able children often are not challenged enough in lessons and given opportunities to progress". It also mentioned sliding standards in maths and writing.

Although we thought these were minor points in comparison with all the other fantastic things the school were doing, the great vibe, the arts, the links with other establishments, the excellent ratios...it turned out these two things were massive for us.

Our DD was not challenged at all as soon as she finished their basic targets for reception, and this had a really bad impact on her.

StealthPolarBear you'd probably get more of the second response if you asked our children
Mrs/Miss X is great she takes me for Lexia/Symphony/exercises etc because I used to struggle with reading/maths/handwriting etc but now I'm really much better - they could also give a very detailed description of most of our intervention programmes we use to support children for a huge range of difficulties.

CharlieBoo surely if you have questions about reception you would ask the reception teacher

I read a great comment in the old Harden's London Baby guide that a primary school is almost always a nice, fun, colourful place to be. Therefore if you go on vibe, most schools will seem great. Hence it's important to have a look at several different schools, even a few that you think are too far away or otherwise unlikely candidates so so you've got a baseline (some schools just have open days for big groups of parents, so you don't have to feel guilty about being a timewaster).

Oh so they can't answer everything then? Hehe :-))

CharlieBoo well I haven't met many head teachers who have more than a passing understanding of reception ...

And no our pupils don't know everything they don't know the school budget or the details of little Johnny's statement of special needs or the staff's home address and telephone number ...

When I first visited the local primary school I was shown round by two of the Yr6 boys. My experience was just how mrz describes. They had a different perspective on the school (IMO) and I really enjoyed the tour they gave.

Display boards/classroom walls are good for getting an idea of what goes on in the school. Personally I like to see displays where the work shows a good range of abilities, rather than ones where only the 'best' ones are put up. To me it makes the school feel more 'inclusive'.

mrz - I can see why you use the pupils to show parents round but tbh it would be a negative for me too. As I first time parent who doesn't know what I should be asking I would want the head teacher to volunteer information on the way round which would then lead my questioning.
I have been shown round a secondary school by puplis and just didn't get anything out of the visit. As well as general information I think most parents will have at least one specific concern about their child and it just won't be within the capability of even the most mature 11 year old to deal properly with that.
I know everyone is different but it would put me off your school a bit.