Anyone else's DC not know the alphabet song?

[Flunker]

Yr1 DC. In a (good) nursery since 1yo, then school based preschool and reception. We've always read with her/supported phonics at home but never really thought about the alphabet song as we assumed she'd do that at nursery/school. Apparently not though! She knows the tune but gets them muddled in the middle 🫣

It's only really become apparent as she has homework involving looking things up in the dictionary.

I'm not super bothered (maybe not everyone needs to sing the song to remember the order?!) just surprised, and wondered if this is common now that the focus is on phonics rather than letter names?

Lol I've thought this previously as well but then read somewhere that if you think about it, the alphabet song is completely irrelevant to learning how to read. And this is from me, someone who was aghast when I first learned how phonics are taught these days as I was very much taught differently.

The order of the alphabet has nothing to do with anything, the names of the letters often don't correspond to the sound, it adds nothing to phonics. My DC (also year 1) does know it but not in relation to actually learning phonics or reading, more as a standalone nursery rhyme.

It used to concern me that kids no longer learn the actual names of alphabet letters, only the sounds, but I'm sure that won't be the case when they're 18. For the purposes of reading, the phonics and sounds are the main things they need to learn without the names of letters or the order of the alphabet confusing things.

Yes, the focus is on phonics. Lots of people get muddled in the middle. If you haven't taught her it and she gets muddled in the middle, then school and nursery must have been teaching her the song at some point. Fifteen years ago schools would have had more time to teach the alphabet song as they weren't having to brush pupils teeth and search the school for pairs of spare shoes because a child has grown out of theirs or they have holes in the bottom and the rain is coming in.

i get that you don't need it for phonics, but there's lots of times in life when knowing the order of the alphabet is useful, not lease quite importantly for using dictionaries and a thesaurus.

obviously it doesn't have to be the song.
they'll also know the tune as it's Twinkle Twinkle little star

Mine did it at nursery but also…I sang it with them?
(I hate to say this as I’m a full-time working mum and always have been so don’t want to throw stones, but even I managed that!)

I'm going to be strong and not take offence 😂 Believe me, we have done plenty with her and she is doing very well at reading. I just never thought about the song!

Agree with those saying they need to know the order though, and I can only remember by singing in my head. DH says he can visualise it though so maybe DC will do that 🤷‍♀️

Oh yes I do agree that they need to learn the order at SOME point for reasons mentioned by pp but it's not imperative while learning phonics is what I meant 😊

I know lots of keystage 2 pupils who don't know the names of letters. It feels silly teaching it to children this old and in my opinion it should be shared in nursery. Not priority 1 but definitely taught.

Why don’t you teach her the song?

8yo also doesn't know it and can't sort things alphabetically - he did only start school last year though (abroad)

I kind of assume he will pick it up? But good point that they probably won't teach it at school.

My (nearly) three year old has also learnt it backwards because he got bored of singing it normally 🤣 he’s absolutely obsessed with singing in general though and will often switch songs up, we’re just lucky that it meant that he knew it very early because he loved it so much, and it’s still one of his favourite songs to sing!

Mine know it, and my 6 year old is a decent reader.

It didn’t stop her being totally convinced, just a few weeks ago, that there’s a section in the middle about ‘lemon yellow pee’. Why she thought that was relevant I do not know.

Now I’m bloody singing it! 🤣🤣

Reception teacher here.

Being able to sing the alphabet song has no bearing on a child's ability to read, so it's not 'taught' in EYFS. Some may sing it for pleasure, but it's not a teaching point. It's no different to teaching them The Wheels on the Bus, or any other song. It's a bit like when children learn to recite numbers to 20 and their parents proudly say "they can count to 20", when in reality they can only accurately count a group of objects to 5. It's one thing learning the order of the numbers, it's a very different skill knowing how to count with 1-1 correspondence.

A 4 year old who can sing the alphabet song in order doesn't necessarily know that t is the letter 'tee', they've just learned a fun song (with that famous letter 'elemenope' falling somewhere in the middle).

School will teach the alphabet in time, when it becomes a necessary skill. In the meantime, you can teach it yourself if you're so shocked school haven't done so yet. They don't need to learn everything for the first time at school. I'd guess most children learn the alphabet at home, as most seem to know it by the time it comes up in school now. That's likely because most parents wrongly assume it's something their child must know in order to learn to read, as there use to be a much greater importance placed on it when we were younger. In reality, knowing letter names can actually confuse some children who are learning to read.

For the dictionary homework, you could make an alphabet strip to use as a bookmark. She can point along it while finding the page, without having to sing the whole song. Let her decorate it with a little picture for each letter if she fancies it.

That's actually a really good idea

😂

i use the alphabet song, but i learned it at home not school.

Did you never sing it with your child at home or in the car?

It's a classic early childhood song.

I don't remember my kids singing it particularly but their Dad did keep singing the Big Bird ABC song which they found very funny. It's not quite phonics and it's all a bit silly