Raise a concern or wait?

[Unsure4589]

Hi all, sorry for the long one! TLDR; not sure whether to speak to someone at school about a TA who might be a bit of a bully.

Our DD just started reception. She's a summer-born, so young for her year, and we also suspect she's neurodivergent (teacher & school senco on the same page & very supportive so far). She struggles a bit with inattention (including interoception) and needs to move a lot, but so far, she's doing great!

Yesterday, at pick up, a teaching assistant spoke to her sharply in front of me (asking her to pay attention to me, ironically). It wasn't just firm, it was borderline contemptuous and accompanied by a look I didn't like. I didn't respond because I was trying to stop my younger one ejecting himself from the buggy and also I was a bit stunned. But, the worst bit was how DD shrank.

I have no idea how school staff manage to wrangle so many chaotic kids, and I'm sure it's been a long and exhausting start to the term for them, but the TA's reaction genuinely felt off. Like this woman doesn't much like kids. Perhaps she thought she was helping me out, but I don't think so. It seemed to come from a place of irritation. I asked DD at bedtime who the TA was and if she liked her. DD told me that she's shouty and that she makes her feel sad. She apparently also prevented DD from eating her snack at snack time, though I couldn't quite make sense of that bit. From what I gleaned, though, she's shouty with everyone. DD wouldn't yet know a lie if it smacked her in the face so I don't doubt she does feel this way.

I'm not a permissive parent. We establish boundaries and follow through with appropriate consequences. I was raised by a shouty mum and unfortunately I'm not above shouting myself when massively overwhelmed by the kids (and bloody perimenopause). But, I really try not to snap, and I'm sensitive to people responding negatively and punishing DD for behaviours we're pretty certain she can't control fully. Especially those who can't reasonably counter that with a whole load of love, patience, and positive affirmation. She's so much more vulnerable to constant correction than some kids and I worry about the cumulative damage to her self-esteem.

I'm not sure what to do here. Would you wait and see what happens, or would you share your concern with the teacher or senco (who also happens to be deputy head)? I'm not a fan of ruffling feathers without good reason, and we're brand new to the school, but I cannot stop thinking about that look and the way DD reacted. I've never seen her withdraw like that, even with me or her dad telling her off. 🙁

So many MN posters are teachers. They will always side with teachers and tell you that you are being unreasonable and parents like you are why so many are leaving the profession.
Unfortunately this is not the forum for svhool
advice.

That's a shame. I'd honestly like to hear from teachers and TAs. I work in education and those are some of the toughest jobs there are, but that doesn't mean that bullies should be allowed to hide in plain sight, if in fact they are bullies. Even if it's a case of reasonable stress and overwhelm causing a bit of friction, there should be mechanisms for support. DD's teacher is brand new to the profession - this is her first ever class - so I'm not necessarily 100% confident that if there is an issue there with her colleague, it'll be flagged, or flagged quickly.

Why is she so much more vulnerable ? You may think that but maybe not so much in the context of a cohort. If she has only been there a few weeks she still needs reminding to follow instructions and listen carefully. What were you trying to tell her? Was she upset by the comment? I think you may be more sensitive to this than dd was.

Why didn't you bring it up at the moment?

It doesn't really seem enough of a basis from which to form an entire opinion, I'd see how things go over a few more weeks.

Lots of people will tell you that TAs are all lovely and most of them are. But there are a few really quite unpleasant ones.
My friend's daughter, a confident, autumn born child, wouldn't go out to play at break time in the school nursery if a certain TA was on duty.
The TA also lied to my face about what had happened to another child's soft toy.
There were lots of complaints about her, but she stayed at the school until she retired.
Is this TA older ?
Please find a way to raise this. The Senco sounds like a good place to start.

Her likely neurodivergence means she's more vulnerable to correction in general by people who either don't know what's going on with her, or don't understand. She is highly distractible and scatty, finds it very hard to be still, can hyperfocus and literally not hear people when she's engaged in something. All traits that can easily frustrate and be mistaken for rudeness. I normally touch her at the same time as talking to her, or look her in the eye. Her interoception isn't great which means she finds it hard to grasp when her body is telling her something - i.e. if she needs a wee she doesn't feel it until it's bursting. Or she gets distracted and puts it off until she is on the verge of an accident and the inevitable happens. Or being hungry - she'll swear blind she's not at all, next minute she's suddenly ravenous. Or even being hot/cold. Stuff like that can mean people constantly tell her what she's doing organically is in some way wrong.

But socially she's okay right now. So, she's not routinely getting told off for things like not sharing or not taking turns or being unkind. And she's a natural 'teacher's pet' so that's also working for her! She tries hard to follow the rules.

DD was dawdling and I was asking her about getting her bike. She was distracted by everyone else leaving and being outside, and I wasn't able to focus my question because I was wrestling the toddler. It wasn't even the fact the teacher pulled her up on something; it was more the way she did it that worried me. I take PPs point that it's not quite enough to form an opinion but it set off my spidey senses and then talking to DD confirmed the situation probably isn't ideal.

but it set off my spidey senses and then talking to DD confirmed the situation probably isn't ideal.
You've had one interaction with her, at a point when you, the TA and your dd are all tired, and you've taken it and run with it.

DD told me that she's shouty and that she makes her feel sad. She apparently also prevented DD from eating her snack at snack time

Thing is that doesn't sound bad. She's not said "she only shouts at me" or something that would imply she was picking on your dd, and children of that age often interpret a firm voice as shouting. If a year R class she probably has to speak loudly to be heard which can be taken as a shout - and especially if she has a new teacher she may be taking on more of the work than normal so may be doing a certain amount of "tidy up" etc.

Not a teacher, but I can remember saying to a child, "don't eat your apple now, there's lots of time to eat it later" because it was 5 minutes after they'd been dropped off, we had 3 more hours with them and we were just taking them to do an activity. Didn't think anything more until at the end of the session, even though I had said to the whole group when we came back from the activity that now was a good time to have their snack, when they came to me and asked if they could eat their apple now or should they take it home. All they'd heard was "don't eat your apple".

Have you had her hearing tested? Because the needed to bend down and touch and look in her eyes was just like ds who had bad glue ear. He found year R really difficult because of the "learning through play" meant that he couldn't hear anything going on as there were always part of the class playing.

My dc all had a teacher at infant level who was very strict and parents often worried about their dc with her. They'd say she seemed very abrupt and parents from the other form would often say that they were so thankful that their dc was in the other form. However by the end of the winter term, the worries from the parents in that class had gone. Why? Because the children adored her. Every child thought she was the best thing ever - even when she was telling them off. That was the form who came out crying at the end of year because they didn't want to leave her and have another teacher.

Raise it.

It sounds like you have ongoing communication with the senco? Do they seem good? I'd mention it to them. Don't go in all gums blazing but just state that your daughter had said that the TA is shouty and it makes her feel sad. See what their response is - they might just have a chat with the TA and ask them to tone it down.

NB I agree with the first pp that often (not always) MN can be weirdly defensive if teachers/TAs.

I would raise it, but approach it collaboratively rather than confrontationally, if that makes sense. It may not be the first time a parent has raised concerns about this TA, although equally it may be a misunderstanding or a one-off.

I’d explain what you witnessed and what your DD subsequently told you, without jumping to conclusions about the TA’s intentions. The SENCO sounds like a good person to start with, particularly given that she already knows your DD and is supportive.

If it bothered you enough to post about it on MN, I think it’s worth having a conversation rather than waiting and worrying about it.

This is interesting because it is showing dd's behaviour in a family setting ie you asked her to do something,she ignored you and you didnt reinforce your request.Thi interaction will be interestingvto the school who are trying to build a bigger picture of your child's condition particularly how much of this is a Special Need and how much is caused by the home environment. If the TA is on her job, she will have already logged it on CPOMS.
I am not sure how a complaint would go, your child didn't listen to you and the TA backed you up with a tone you didn't like and a contemptuous look!
I mean they will say good on her modelling to the mother how not to be a wet lettuce!

Agree with this wholeheartedly.

The senco can then consider the situation and whether there is anything to worry about or whether it is just a case of a different approach.

This sounds like every child to me. They have to learn they are hot / cold and what to do about it. I think you are being over sensitive and helicoptering

@Unsure4589 the thing which makes me think you are over sensitive as a parent is saying ‘things that can be mistaken for rudeness’ - all this is you. No one else cares about ‘rudeness’ in very young children; Everyone knows all young children are rude because they have to learn social norms; through school, through being told off by other adults in appropriate settings, like at school. Your child has so much to learn and they are in no way a finished article at this point. I think unless there is significant development problems like no speech or no interaction with other people, you cannot possibly know she is neurologically different at this age. So honestly I think it’s you being very anxious as a parent generally. I appreciate you are unlikely to want to hear this, but this kind of anxious parenting is a problem imo. It doesn’t benefit anyone.

I’d wait and see to be honest. Does your DD normally tell you about her day? What she did, what happened etc.? If yes, it’s odd if she didn’t mention this TA before (unless she isn’t a regular member of staff) and how she makes her feel. If any more incidents happen or DD seems unhappy at school, then I’d approach the class teacher and the SENCO.