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Primary education

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

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Original poster

Can anyone please help with this year 3 maths homework question?

21 replies

clumsymum · 13/04/2008 12:15

"which amounts up to £1.00 cannot be paid exactly with fewer than 6 coins?"

DS has no idea how to set about this, and because I can't get my head round how he is taught division and multiplication, I'm struggling to explain it to him.

Part of the problem is that he panics and goes into a paddy when he can't just do it, so we have had a touch of meltdown.

Any TA's or teachers who can explain how this will have been taught to him would be very welcomed.

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ScienceTeacher · 13/04/2008 12:17

I think you just have to start at 99p and work your way down

99 = 50+ 20+ 20+ 5 + 2 + 2 = 6 coin
98 = 50+ 20+ 20+ 5+ 2+ 1 etc

Original poster

clumsymum · 13/04/2008 12:20

Well I thought that too, but wondered if he might have been shown some slick way to do it that I can't think of.

I'm an accountancy graduate, and I'm struggling with this one !!!

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soapbox · 13/04/2008 12:22

When faced with questions like this we always found it useful to get a pile of coins out and work our way through it!

ScienceTeacher · 13/04/2008 12:24

You'll soon find a pattern, and there won't be that many answers. I think it has end in either 8 or 9. It's probably only 88, 89, 98 and 99.

RustyBear · 13/04/2008 12:26

I think I'd start by finding out the least number of coins needed for each sum up to 10p, and the least number for each multiple of 10 - i.e 10p + 1x10p coin, 20p + 1x 20p coin etc.

Then you can look at adding the numbers together - it reaks the task down into more easily manageable chunks.

You could maybe have a number square & use it to cross off the obvious ones that only need 1 or 2 coins first, or maybe write the number needed on each square.

mylovelymonster · 13/04/2008 12:26

hmmm..start with which coins there are, less than one pound:
1p
2p
5p
10p
20p
50p

If you add these up together - 88p, that's one that needs at least 6 coins:
50+20+10+5+2+1
or - 20+20+20+20+5+2+1
Then add another penny = 89p

Now, 90p can be made up of just three coins - 50+20+20, so that doesn't count, so I think the next number is 98p - 50+20+20+5+2+1, and then 99p - 50+20+20+5+2+2

I think there are just these four - 88,89,98 & 99p.

Sorry - can't think of a cleverer way of working out. Am not a teacher.

Original poster

clumsymum · 13/04/2008 12:30

Oh, bum, dh has got involved now, and it's starting to get shouty.

Now I've got the problem of getting him out too.

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mylovelymonster · 13/04/2008 12:33

I think soapbox's idea of getting the different coins out is a great way of understanding how the puzzle works.

spaghettoblaster · 13/04/2008 12:42

If your DC can do this in Year 3 they should be patted firmly on the back and treated to something nice from the cake trolley.

It's "Year 5 problem solving" (according to my Teacher friend).

Original poster

clumsymum · 13/04/2008 12:44

Right leading on from this....

How do we get ds NOT to panic when he sees a number problem written out in words?

Give him straight sums and he's terrific. Fully understands the maths bit, addition, subtraction, division (this is his weakest skill ATM), multiplication, he can cope with those.

Break a problem down into individual for him, and again he copes.

Give him a written problem and he gets in a state, and loses the ability to focus and break it down for himself. But he's an excellent reader, an articulate child, with a VERY good I.Q. (it's been measured by an independent ed psych).

We know he can do it, his teacher knows he can do it, how do we convince HIM he can do it?

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mylovelymonster · 13/04/2008 12:49

I think it's practice/familiarity - someone (teacher, you) needs to talk him through lots of problems like this and help him think through. I don't think any child would come to a question like this without feeling clueless, IQ of whatever it may be.

spaghettoblaster · 13/04/2008 12:54

I'm appawled by my extraneous apostophe in the word its.

re: the written sums, get him to rewrite the sum in numbers before attempting it. (Show your working out is a great habit to get into).

Original poster

clumsymum · 13/04/2008 12:56

But it isn't just the fact that he's clueless (I mean, I struggled with this one), it's that he gets himself into such a state about being clueless, real panic about "I can't do it" resulting in huge tantrum, instead of "I can't do it, please can you help?"

It happens at school too.

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3littlefrogs · 13/04/2008 12:58

Another vote for getting a pile of coins out. It is much easier for a year 3 child to understand when they see the coins. Then once they have grasped the concept, they are more likely to be able to do it without the props.

(We had a similar problem with a calculation about how long one person would take to do a job, and how long 3/5/8 people would take to do the same task. Once we visualised daddy painting a wall, then daddy helped by ds1, then helped by ds1, ds2, and mummy, it was much easier).

spaghettoblaster · 13/04/2008 13:04

(aside) daddy would probably do the job quicker on his own if he wasn't constantly falling over ds1+2 and if mummy wasn't getting paint on the skirting board.

Is he ok when you read the question to him?

Are these sums from the same book as the coinage quiz?

admylin · 13/04/2008 13:07

My ds used to be like that clumsymum, he would throw a fit if I even tried to help or correct his work and then go into meltdown. I tink it's part frustration part wanting to please. He is now top of his class and can manage his homework and even comes for advice sometimes (year 4), so don't worry, persevere
He has grown out of it now (well, nearly) - I just had to try and help him indirectly or very discretly and be very careful about saying things like 'no that's wrong'. We just maybe have sensitive but inteligent little souls to deal with.

mylovelymonster · 13/04/2008 13:09

It's = it is, hence '.

How old is a year three child? Perhaps he's (= he is) just not ready for this sort of reasoning or needs some extra tuition?? Sounds a great shame for him to be upset by this, and needs support.

P.S. I have NO experience of education these days - LO just 15mo, so talking off the top of my head, but I mean well x

Original poster

clumsymum · 13/04/2008 13:16

admylin, that's encouraging to hear, at least.

Mylovelymonster, DS is eight, oldest in his class (born 1st Sept, FHS). One of his best friends in class is 11 months and 25 days younger....

He is basically just not into reasoning things out. He has a huge stock of knowledge in his head, and loves shouting out answers that he 'just knows', but gets fazed at having to work out an answer to something.

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mylovelymonster · 13/04/2008 13:21

I can only suggest patience and practice x
We all have our strengths and weaknesses, problem-solving-wise. He has a long way to go in his education, and I'm sure he will overcome this.

Original poster

clumsymum · 13/04/2008 14:44

Thanks everyone, it's done now, and ds is going to have some easter egg to celebrate.

As you say, he'll grow into this skill I'm sure, ith time, and patience.

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stuffitllama · 13/04/2008 14:50

Crazy homework for a Y3.

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