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Primary education

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Original poster

Twins been given separate schools-help

37 replies

Dizzyingly · 19/04/2016 19:24

Hi I was wondering if someone knows anything about the rules on applications regarding twins.

I know of a set of twins who have ended up at different schools. 1 child was 30th on the list and the other was 31st. So 1 child got their 1st choice and the other one got thir 2nd choice. I seem to remember reading here that the regulations regarding this have changed so that the school must accept both twins and this does not affect ics. When I spoke to the latest today they said it was up to the school whether they wanted to admit them or not. Is this true.? The school on question is a Catholic school not sure if this makes a difference?

I am desperately hoping thy both get a place at their 1st choice as I am number 2 on the waiting list for their second choice.

OP posts:

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ReallyTired · 19/04/2016 19:28

Surely you have strong grounds for appeal. The class size rules mean that the schools can make an exception for twins. I would also involve your MP. Maybe talk to TAMBA for advice.

TheSuspiciousMsWhicher · 19/04/2016 19:30

This shouldn't happen. I know TAMBA have campaigned on this issue and were, I think, successful in changing the Admissions Code. Someone who knows all about it will be along in a moment I'm sure!

Peasandsweetcorn · 19/04/2016 19:34

If I understand correctly, the twins concerned aren't your DC, are they? Whilst I imagine it would be unusual, do you know for certain that their parents applied for them to go to the same school? They may have put different first choices for each child if they thought they would benefit from this.

PatriciaHolm · 19/04/2016 19:37

The Admissions code does indeed allow for the admission of a second twin as an excepted pupil if the other twin is admitted during the regular admissions round, as in your example. The second twin would be an excepted child, allowing the school to go over the 30 normal maximum.

However, they don't have to do it. Some will do it automatically, but some won't, as here.

In this situation, I would advise someone to go to appeal; it's one of the rare cases where an ICS appeal can be won, as the child would explicitly be an excepted child, and I would suggest they had a pretty good chance of winning.

Original poster

Dizzyingly · 19/04/2016 19:59

So we're the la correct in saying that it was up to the school whether or not to take an extra child as they are a faith school is it down to the la?

I will pass on the information to the parent. They def listed the same school as their 1st choice and want them together.

OP posts:

ReallyTired · 19/04/2016 20:23

The fair access protocol applies to faith schools. Being an excepted child only applies to the normal admissions round. There is no compulsion for the second choice school to accept both children as the child without a place at the second school would be applying outside the normal admissions round.

Being positive the is a strong chance the second twin will get their first choice in the first or second run of continuing interest. The second twin should have sibling priority.

prh47bridge · 19/04/2016 21:02

So we're the la correct in saying that it was up to the school whether or not to take an extra child as they are a faith school is it down to the la

As it is a faith school it is its own admission authority. That means it is up to the school whether or not to take an additional child. However, in the circumstances described there is a good chance the parents will win if they appeal. The school cannot argue that this is an ICS case as it clearly isn't.

The fair access protocol applies to faith schools

Not sure of the relevance of that. This is about the Admissions Code, not the FAP.

Being an excepted child only applies to the normal admissions round

That is wrong. A number of classes of excepted children only apply outside the normal admissions round. In the case of multiple births provided one child is not excepted when admitted their siblings are excepted regardless of when they are admitted.

There is no compulsion for the second choice school to accept both children as the child without a place at the second school would be applying outside the normal admissions round

There is no compulsion for the second choice school to accept both children regardless of the child applying outside the normal admissions round. However, if the OP applies to her second choice for a place for the twin that got into the first choice the child would be excepted if admitted. That doesn't mean the second choice school has to admit the child. But, just as with the first choice school, they may struggle to defend an appeal.

admission · 19/04/2016 22:27

I think the first thing to do is point out to the LA that they are twins and that they should have been given exception. Ask for them to reply in writing within say 3 days as to my the school will not accept the twin as a 31st excepted pupil. That puts the onus on both the LA and the school to make a statement that puts them on the defensive.
There is a possibility that the school or the LA have not realised they are twins or that this ability to admit exists. By asking for an explanation in writing it ensures that they need to think carefully about what they are going to say.
If you look on the internet, you will see that there are many catholic schools that do operate this positive measure to admit a twin, so the other thing I would do is look up the admission criteria for the school and check whether there is anything in the small print about twins. If not look up other local catholic schools in the Diocese and see if they admit twins. If they do, then there is a fair bet that the Diocese have said that they favour this situation, so a conversation with the Director of education at the catholic diocese may be use in twisting an arm or two at the school.

edwardsmum11 · 19/04/2016 22:44

I'd appeal and go on wait list. Lol I had a convo outside my sons nursery about this today with another mum (not the children's parent)... Is this a Solihull school?

edwardsmum11 · 19/04/2016 22:45

Oh ok just saw its a catholic school so don't think it is same one.

CodyKing · 19/04/2016 23:09

How did the school decide which one to admit?

Eldest:youngest?

fredfredgeorgejnrsnr · 19/04/2016 23:24

How did the school decide which one to admit?
Eldest:youngest?

Unlikely to be in the criteria - probably distance to school, so make sure they measured from the correct bed... maybe you could even sneakily move the beds around so the one that missed out one was closer. Just make sure you check if it's walking route or as crows fly!

prh47bridge · 19/04/2016 23:50

Unlikely to be in the criteria

It should be. Many have something about what happens if there are two applicants living the same distance from school. It certainly won't be distance to the bed.

Goodbyealvin · 19/04/2016 23:58

I knew twins offered different schools years ago - for the first choice school it was decided on alphabetical order of their first names!

pinkcan · 20/04/2016 00:04

What a stupid, stupid allocation. No common sense, but the boxes have been ticked. As usual for our society which seems to be going backwards.

Original poster

Dizzyingly · 20/04/2016 06:01

Ok thanks everyone. I will pass in all if the information. Was sort of hoping it could get sorted without an appeal.

OP posts:

Original poster

Dizzyingly · 21/04/2016 06:50

Ok so now I am 3rd on the list because tge other twin has been moved to number 1 on our waiting list. Whichever school gets a place first will let them in.

Now I am so worried we won't get a place. Is 3rd likely to get in?

OP posts:

ReallyTired · 21/04/2016 06:57

Dizzy don't you think that other twin needs the place more than your child. I hope the family get the twins at their first choice of school for their sake.

Whether your child is likely to get a place depends on the size of the school. The bigger the school the bigger the chance. I am sure they will eventually get a place, but whether they do by September is a different question.

Finallyonboard · 21/04/2016 07:00

Twins are counted as one in this county.

meditrina · 21/04/2016 07:15

You said twin 1 had been offered a place. Moving twin 2 to first place only after the parent has started to add questions suggests that there has indeed been an error in handling this (unless you are in an area which does not automatically add unsuccessful applicants to the waiting list, in which case brace yourself for your position to vary more over the coming days as they may be ahead of you in how well they fit the criteria too).

I suspect they've parked this on the waiting list in a hope a place will come up and they can get twin 2 in that way. But if the parents are now well informed, they will be pressing for admittance as an excepted child and I'd be rather surprised if they did not succeed.

tobysmum77 · 21/04/2016 07:17

Surely appeals are based on whether the school has correctly applied their admissions criteria. Surely the twins would be equal and therefore they cannot have applied the admissions criteria fairly as they have randomly offered a place to one and not the other. Unless I am missing something.

meditrina · 21/04/2016 07:31

Under the current iteration if the Admissions Code, you can admit one twin as normal, and also offer to the second twin (and indeed third triplet) as excepted children, so that issue doesn't arise.

In general, if you have two children (whether multiples or not) jointly qualifying for a final place (eg could also be one child each from two ground floor flats in a symmetrical block) then there will somewhere be a formal tie-breaker, possibly drawing lots. It's pretty rare other than for twins, close age siblings and blended families, and only multiple births are specifically covered by this exception.

CodyKing · 21/04/2016 07:35

That's interesting!

So technically twin2 should be admitted as an exception to school A - and therefore twin 1 admitted to schoolB as an exception?

So OP situation shouldn't change?

But it has .....

prh47bridge · 21/04/2016 08:06

So technically twin2 should be admitted as an exception to school A - and therefore twin 1 admitted to schoolB as an exception

The second half of your sentence does not follow from the first. If twin 2 was admitted to school A as an excepted child twin 1 cannot be an excepted child for school B. The rule is that children from a multiple birth are excepted provided one of them has gained admission normally, i.e. without being excepted. If twin 2 gets a place at school A twin 1 will no longer qualify as an excepted child for school B.

CodyKing · 21/04/2016 08:11

Actually I'm saying as it stands

Each twin has a place

Therefore - by rule of exception - both could be admitted to either school under that rule -

Leaving OP as she was?

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