"School discipline policy" thread has got me worried

[KingLooieCatz]

DS is 7. He is in his second school because we re-located. At both schools he has been sent out of the classroom, either to sit on his own in the corridor and get on with the work he should be doing in class, or to go and sit in another class.

There were comments on another thread that children who get sent out of the room at this age tend to get excluded in high school. I am bricking it for his future at the moment. I don't consider his behavior acceptable and neither does DH, we reinforce this regularly, but try not to spend DS every waking moment telling him off. Don't think that would help either.

Both schools have excellent reports. I can't imagine how anyone teaches a class with him in it. He fidgets and his concentration and impulse control are terrible and he can be attention seeking. We support school behaviour policies in whatever way we can. His current teacher doesn't think we should pursue having him assessed for special needs. SENCO involved in developing a behavior plan for him. I work but have taken time off to go in to school to meet teacher and made it clear we would do so again if considered necessary/helpful.

Does anyone have any positive stories? Or advice?

They are not doctors so telling you not to look at SEN is appalling imho. My son is 13 with Autism and ADHD and displayed very similar issues to what you are describing.

I would make a note of his history including things like when he reached certain milestones (crawling, walking and particularly talking). Also start keeping a diary of what is happening in school, it isn't normal for a child to be constantly having to go outside of the classroom to work and it makes me wonder what is happening in the classroom which is bothering him. Is it too noisy, too bright, too crowded....there could be a whole load of sensory issues going in that nobody is picking up because the school have told you not to pursue it.

My son couldn't cope in a noisy busy classroom and a TA used to sit with him specifically at those times and support him.

I am not sayi your child has the same issues as my son but quite honestly I think your son's school are letting him down in not looking beyond the behaviours at what might be causing them.

Have a talk with your GP and ask if your son could be seen by a developmental paediatrician.

Thanks. I'm more in favour of assessment than my husband. I suspect DS does get overwhelmed by the busy-ness and it makes him a bit manic. I can understand that what a teacher sees is that it is DS who is causing most of the noise and disruption. We have a parent/teacher consultation on Friday, we'll see how that goes. It will be difficult if school say no need for assessment and DH is opposed. DH was put in "remedial" English at some point which seems to have scarred him and he doesn't want DS "labeled" as he sees it. I see the benefits of a proper assessment - I put it to him that if a child's needs were physical and visible, you would give them the support they need.

Hi
Does he always have these problems or only at school. Some children are overloaded at school with the noise, lighting, colours, children etc.
An assessment won't find a problem if its not there. So if they pick up anything it is/a way of getting the help he needs. It is much better to sort things early so behaviour aren't entrenched and his self esteem remains good. It might b worth popping over to the SEN boards as there are lots of experienced mums over there

Thanks Mary. There are certain settings where his behavior is never a problem. Outside school it is variable. He has calmed down generally over the past year or so. Part of the idea of re-locating was to take the pressure of all of us, if I get stressed he probably feeds off that and I don't cope with him as well. He does have his good days at school and had a couple of 10 out of 10 days last week. I'll go on the SEN board if I start a new thread, thanks.

I really do not understand how a school can expect a child like this to work by themselves. This strategy really is not tackling the problem. I think the teacher is setting him up to fail by not addresing the problems. I would ask to see the Headteacher and express your concerns. I would also not refer to this as "discipline". It is the Behaviour Policy they should be following (rewards, sanctions and communication between home and school should be contained in it) and talking to you and their Sendco about what other strategies they can deploy to help him.

I think you could also see if there is help for you to improve your parenting skills (if you think this may help). You have moved him into another school and this is always unsettling. The school should be working with all of you to help. By the way, often Outstanding schools are less tolerant of challenging children than others and often have fewer skills in helping these children settle down.

Can you ask you DH which is preferable:

Either
Get assessed as e.g. ADHD, get support, learn triggers and how to cope
Or
Get assessed as a bit immature, get given advice and strategies
Or
Don't get assessed, no help or understanding, get labelled as naughty and disruptive

I know which I think is the worse situation.

Dc2 was horrific all the way through primary school. No diagnosis of anything, just wouldn't/couldn't control his anger. Was internally and externally excluded, physically restrained on a number of occasions, had all sorts of interventions.

Now in yr8. Met with secondary school liaison staff numerous times during yr6 to try and ensure a smooth transition. I feared dc2 would be permanently excluded by Christmas.

Turns out secondary has been the making of dc2. Thriving academically, has some super friends and most importantly has had a few detentions (mostly for not doing homework ) for low level silliness (pulling faces etc). Form tutor looked at me blankly when I kept quizzing him about behaviour, liason teacher always beams when she sees me as she was prepared for a horror and the opposite occurred.

I think you have been very unlucky to find two schools which deal with behaviour like this. My DCs school only sent children out of the classroom if they were in danger of hurting others and then they would do work in an office under the supervision of a member of the senior leadership team or a TA. If he is struggling to concentrate and fidgets, the teacher should be using other strategies to help him concentrate (own table, different position in class, wobble cushion, fidget toys, head phones, use of TA etc).
I would go to your GP and request a referred to a paediatrician, also get his hearing and eye sight checked.
If you DH had problems at school it could be that your son has inherited something. But schools are far more tolerant and better at dealing with SEN nowadays, on the whole.

But on the other hand some modern classrooms as horrendously busy places - with far too much stimulation for a child who struggles.

The schools are at fault here, not your DS. FWIW I have 2 dc with ADHD, a DH who was often in the remedial class at school, and would say a dx is far preferable than your DS getting a reputation as the naughty boy.

My only NT DC spent the whole final term of Y2 sitting outside the HTs office. They didn't bother to tell us. He started Y3 in a different school and we never looked back.

Speak to your SENCO, ask your GP for a referral to a paediatrician, and if you can, I would be looking for another school. The primary my 8 yo goes to is the one avoided by the m/c and doesn't get such good results. But they are fantastic with SEN children and really get the best out of them. That is what you need with a child like (y)ours.

Thanks for taking the time to comment.

Thornybird - thank you for a good news story, what I had hoped for! I'm glad it has worked out well for your DS at secondary.

Bojorojo - I used the word discipline because it was in the title of the thread that I was referring to. I'm not sure from your post whether you realized we hadn't moved him schools on a whim, we re-located 450 miles to make a better, happier life for all of us and we knew it would be difficult in the short term. It has been unsettling and I am always surprised at the number of suggestions to move children schools on this board - wait till you stand in the playground and watch them say goodbye for the last time to their wee pals. It was a big decision that was years in the making. Re: Outstanding schools, that was my gut feeling about the previous school, very picture perfect, narrow definition of normal. It is not my sense of the current one, it is a much broader community and I have a sense that they take difficult behavior in their stride a lot more.

Mummytime - he's had wobble cushions and the like. There is a current plan with Senco input. We're meeting the teacher on Friday so we'll see how well the plan is working.

Indantherene - for reasons above I would be very reluctant to move school. I'd consider it if his behavior changed but he couldn't lose the naughty label, so he could have a fresh start. As it goes, the school he goes to is considered less desirable, despite having a good inspection report. Some people are surprised we aren't trying to get him into the more local and very favoured by the middle class school, which is bursting at the seams. I do think he is better off at a school that is perhaps less concerned with maintaining a certain appearance or reputation.

So, we'll find out more when we next speak to teacher abut how the plan is working out. If behaviour isn't consistently appropriate for his age and the setting I need to push for assessment, whether or not DH agrees with it. In the meantime I need to ask the school to keep us informed of any times he is sent out of the classroom.

FWIW - things seem to have improved a lot, handwriting has "clicked" and made leaps and bounds and he is telling us more about what he has learnt at school. It was reading the comments on the other thread that set me off a bit yesterday. Thanks again for your comments.

7 is still very young.

Of my 3 children. The boy was still struggling at 7, but was always described as "lovely" usually followed by "but..." Although occasionally it was just about his good manners etc.
The only one of my children to get into trouble at Primary, so much so that transition to secondary was treated wig kid gloves. Had no problems at secondary, two very small "incidents" and is absolutely flying. She has won prizes for her behaviour and is happy with friends. She needed the structure and discipline of a big school, (and to get away from a head teacher who didn't like her).

Go to your doctor.
I was concerned about my daughters behavior and found out she's been acting up a lot in class. Talking over the teacher, walking around when she's not supposed too and getting into a lot of trouble. (quick summary)

Asked the school if I could speak to Senco to find out they don't have one. I took her to the doctors today and he's referring her. In the room only a few minutes and she was crawling under seats and climbing everything.

She's only 5 but I want to get her help before it affects her class work (her focus is awful) and before her behavior gets more out of control. She's already fought with a kid and spat at another, though is generally well behaved. (Not usually violent)

I spoke to other parents with special needs kids or whose friends do and all of them said the same, the school doesn't want to refer a kid they don't want the paperwork or extra responsibility.

Also the school told me nothing about how she was behaving in class until I asked about it after the spitting incident