Does early grouping predict later levels?

[Cheesesandwine]

My DD is in year 1 and is in the 'bottom' groups for reading and maths. I can't help feeling sad that my DD is finding learning difficult. She's only 6 but I can see her being left behind by her peers already. I'm trying to do more at home with her, we do something everyday. But she also needs and deserves a rest. Also I feel she is going as 'fast' as she can.

I don't get it, are all the parents doing lots of extra work at home? Or at this age is it already possible to say she's just not academic?

No, it doesn't predict. I know kids in my eldest's year that were on the bottom two tables in year 1 that passed the 11+ - everybody goes in fits and bursts. My middle child could read before starting school, but is currently only on the middle table, but has been on lower and higher tables in the past. I wouldn't worry x

No, some children start early, some may click during YR2, or even later.
Doing a little bit at home regularly would help though, I think.

For maths, I recommend this site. It's completely free.

www.khanacademy.org/math/early-math

DD started at a quite high level, moved down at the mid of Y2 and is now in Y4 a bit above average. So it often depends on the mental development, the teacher, what they do in class (DD decided she hates ancient greek so didn't bother despite being a history buff) and yes, parental involvment.

Luckily DD loves workbooks, so we do them on a regular basis. Also regular reading to her and her to us, times table or simple addition/substraction, writing at all opportunities are easy to incorporate into the day.

In DS1's school, there were not much movement between groups since Y3. I think by that time , most children have matured enough to fill the gaps. But there are of course exceptions.

For Y1, I think it is still earlier stage, just think in some country, children only start school when they are 6 or 7. I think you should keep helping her at home. But don't make it very long. Maybe 15 minutes English and 15 minutes math?

What area you think your DD is behind?

Yes and no. By key stage two I would say it is predictive (unless learning English as a second language or some temporary medical condition). However in year 1 there is still lots of maturing to do. Some children do have a sudden eureka type moment!

www.primaryinteractive.co.uk/index.htm

www.arcademics.com/

www.topmarks.co.uk/maths-games/5-7-years/counting

All free sites.

And this for reading comprehension.

www.turtlediary.com/games/reading.html

Thank you for your replies and and for the links.

The problem is that she found R really hard (one of the youngest and was just not ready for school) so in a way got left behind as the focus was on her managing school rather than learning so I feel she is really catching up now. She has done fantastically with her reading but maths is the area I can see she's struggling with and has recently been put 'down' a group.

My DH says I worry too much and compare her too much and should just focus on how she is doing. I know he's right and am trying to. But I think it's easier for him to do this as he doesn't have the contact I do with school and other mums.

I will try not to worry, while also look at doing extra but little and often.

Thanks again.

primary - just curious so if you are teaching pupils at KS2 - you see them as at that level for the rest of their school career?

This just seems so sad to me and so restrictive.

Sorry by 'you' I meant teachers - not you personally! Just realised that reads as a bit of an attack at you

My son only learnt to count to 10 at the very end of year 1, he was well below everyone in the year. He had a sudden improvement the second term of year 2. Now in year 3 he is still in the bottom set but on the top table!

There is plenty of time for movement.

My son is an August-born, and in Reception and the beginning of Yr 1 was on the lower tables. By Yr 2 he'd accelerated to the top tables and has absolutely flown ever since, getting a full set of (14) As and A* at GCSE and excellent A levels leading to him now studying at a "good" uni for a Masters.

It feels hypocritical for me to say "chill out and wait and see" because I admit I stressed about it at the time, but the truth is, it is what it is, and all you can do is support and provide interesting things to do at home to supplement her learning. Good luck.

No, but I think sometimes it's difficult for children to make the leap forward because they get stuck in a certain ability group and get pigeonholed by the school. So I think doing extra work at home is important.

I was pigeon holed as pp said as throughout primary was put in the bottom sets for everything. I went to secondary and was put in top sets across the board and was convinced they'd made a mistake somewhere. They didn't, I got all As and A*s at GCSE and A-Level. I didn't even know my potential till I got put in the top sets.

You will be to some degree playing catch up -

Ask school for her targets - this will help you decide what she needs help with -

Ask - what are you doing in maths next week - time? Plus one? Days is the week - teachers plan for the half term so this should be way to obtain - so you can reinforce her learning at home

DD2 was in the bottom group in year 1, mainly because of her maths I think. In year 2 she had remedial maths sessions and was assessed at 2a in year 2 sats. By year 6 she was in the top group in the lower set (of 2), so about middle of the year group. Now half way through year 7, she is consistently scoring around 80% in assessments and has been predicted A at GCSE if she continues at current level. So progress is definitely possible!

Thinking back to my daughters' year group, I would say those children who were ahead of the game in Reception are still doing well now, but there are also plenty of others who had a slower start who have largely caught up with them (including my own DDs!)

I agree with AuntieUrsula, on the whole, those at the top in primary tend to stay there - with the exception of the bright but lazy children who slip down a bit during secondary school. They get replaced with the not so bright but hard working children and those who just mature a little later. A child may not naturally pick things up as quick as others, but at some point, if they want to succeed they realise that they can succeed but just need to work harder than some others.

Cheeseandwine- no I don't think anyone is 'stuck' and all of us whatever age can change and learn! But as children get older their academic achievements tend to be more predictive of results at say GCSE (which is certainly not the end point of life!!). However at EYFS/KS1 their age (e.g summer birthdays) makes a very big difference and you see much more 'spurts' in learning.

From experience all the reception/Y1&2 groups changed constantly. By year 4 it was clearer but even then some children made huge leaps

The problem setting is how it creates self-fulfilling prophecies. Which can be useful if your child is in the top set, but quite problematic for the rest.

I do wish the national curriculum focused more on conceptual material that can be accessed and studied at multiple levels,'s particularly in primary. Of course, such work lends itself less to standardised testing.

Children develop differently, everyone seems to recognise that about toddlers then forget as soon as the children enter the school gates.

If your child is 'going as fast as she can' (and you know your child best) then she's probably absorbing or consolidating other skills - even more with a summer-born who struggled to initially adjust to school. Or her academic skills simply haven't surfaced yet.

I'd focus on her confidence, maybe do bits at home, but more to let her experience success than to try to 'catch her up' at age 6.