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Primary education

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Original poster

School place fraud?

43 replies

Whattodo3 · 10/04/2014 11:26

I started this WWYD but was advised to move it over here.

My friend lives in a rented property and has done so for years. The Ll has decided they want to move back this summer and her children therefore need school places for this September.

The LL has applied using the address she's moving back to over the summer but at the date of the application she didn't live there.

The LL had broken the rules. School places are really tight in the town especially for the Outstanding Schools which using the future address the LL will get.

Do I report the LL?

OP posts:

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tiggytape · 10/04/2014 11:40

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

meditrina · 10/04/2014 12:06

I hope you don't mind, but for ease of reference, here's the earlier thread

When did the LL serve notice to quit? Was it before the mid-January deadline? Because some LEAs will accept documented future house moves (signed leases, exchanged contracts). But in general, unless a Forces family, you cannot apply on the strength of a future address.

Dinosaursareextinct · 10/04/2014 12:11

I wouldn't report. Yes, she broke the rules, but not in a cheeky way. She is relying on the address the children will actually be living at when they start school, which actually makes a lot more logical sense than using an address that you will no longer be living at. You presumably think that she should be commuting miles from where she lives to take the children to wherever there are spaces, just because of an accident of timing?

PortofinoRevisited · 10/04/2014 12:13

But she will be living there - and her children will need school places, non? Maybe not following the letter of the law, but I really can't see why you have an issue with it.

MirandaWest · 10/04/2014 12:15

I've replied on the other thread too, but if it is an oversubscribed school, there will be someone who should have got a place and who was living in the area at the time of application who doesn't get one because of that. The landlord should have moved back before they made the application. My LEA says you need to be ordinarily resident at the time of application and the Landlord wasn't.

tiggytape · 10/04/2014 12:29

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Dinosaursareextinct · 10/04/2014 12:34

A child will miss out by not getting the place this person's DC has got, yes. But DC's child will be living closer to the school than that child does, from the time when they start at the school. And the child who missed out will probably get their 2nd choice place at another local school. This person's child might have ended up having to commute 20 miles, if all the local schools are oversubscribed and they have to apply later than everyone else.

doodledotmum · 10/04/2014 12:37

I would email the LEA with all the information you have and let them decide if its cheating or not. Leave it with them. If it it cheating it must be reported - rules are there for a reason.

MirandaWest · 10/04/2014 12:39

Yes but that's because they didn't live there when the application was made. Plenty of people move house after the application date and so might live nearer when school starts, but they have to find another school that does have places? Why should the fact you already own the property but don't live there make a difference?

starlight1234 · 10/04/2014 12:41

The thought of mine is what is it to do with you?

Dinosaursareextinct · 10/04/2014 12:45

Yes, I suspect that the OP holds a grudge and that this is pay-back time.

tiggytape · 10/04/2014 13:03

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

K8Middleton · 10/04/2014 13:42

The landlord has clearly breached the rules. We have a high profile case locally where a councillor's child was declined a place at an oversubscribed school because the council believe the address given was not the residential address so that's not even as blatant! (Google Virginia Morris if you want to see the details).

If there was any possibility my child would be disadvantaged I would be ringing and writing to the council. If I was unlikely my child was going to be affected I would still email. If it is all fine nothing will happen. If it is not fine then the child who was entitled to the place will get it.

The current system is not perfect but it is the system and must be applied strictly or it becomes unfair.

Best to do it now before place allocations go out.

Original poster

Whattodo3 · 10/04/2014 14:01

I don't have a grudge but live right on the outer limits of where places go out to. If there's one place left then I'd rather my dc got it that someone who has cheated the system.

The LL is applying for both infants and secondary school places in the main intake in September.

I'm still torn between doing what I think I should (reporting it) or just leaving it to fate.

OP posts:

MirandaWest · 10/04/2014 14:13

How do you definitely know that the LL has applied from the house your friend currently lives in? I think that's the only thing that would stop me reporting it.

MrsCakesPremonition · 10/04/2014 14:19

If the LL used your friend's address when completing their application then they have already broken the rules.

If I was 100% sure of my facts then yes, I would report it.

Wickeddevil · 10/04/2014 14:32

I believe some LA accept applications from parents who can prove that they are genuinely moving into an area, for example via a solicitors letter / exchange of contracts. As the LL already owns the property, it is likely that they would be able to do this.

zipzap · 10/04/2014 14:42

It could also have screwed your friend if she had dc that were applying for schools at the same time and all of a sudden there were two applications from the same address which could have caused lots of hassle for her.

I'd mention it to the council - if they want to investigate and do something about it they can. It will save them from having to double check that address later onwhen itcould cause more problems.

tiggytape · 10/04/2014 14:43

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Twighlightsparkle · 10/04/2014 14:50

i dont live in England so this is all a bit over my head.

However my brain has simplified it. Am i right in thinking she has applied for school places at the address she will be living ?

if so I dont get what the issue is.

doodledotmum · 10/04/2014 14:51

If I was at risk of loosing a place I would do it without hesitation. In fact if I was sure about facts, I would do it anyway as some poor child and worried parent will loose their rightful place. Of people don't report then there is no incentive not to try and cheat

ChocolateWombat · 10/04/2014 21:55

I guess you can report it as POSSIBLE fraud and say you would like it investigated, as you would not like someone else to lose a place that is rightfully theirs. When reporting you can say that you are not entirely clear about the rules for people moving back to houses they own, but don't live in, or if this person has been given special dispensation from the council to put that address. It will then be up to the council to sort it out.

If the LL has not done anything wrong, nothing will come of you reporting possible fraud. If they have, it will be shown up.

YOU don't have to decide if the LL is in the wrong. The council does. YOU don't have all the info to know what the situation of the LL is to make a judgement, but the council can access that info. All you can do is raise legitimate concerns and then leave the council to do their job.

You can email the council with your concerns. Phrase them as concerns about possible fraud, rather than making out and out accusations. Make it clear that you realise there may be no wrong doing, but you feel it is your duty to report suspected malpractice, when places are so short. Ask for confirmation that your email has been received. If you don't get confirmation, ring to ask for it.

The final decision about what happens is not down to you, but the council, so don't feel like a 'grass'.

nlondondad · 11/04/2014 12:40

if I had this information I would regard it as my duty to report it to the council. But then that would be it. I would take no further concern with it.

Original poster

Whattodo3 · 11/04/2014 18:11

Thanks for replying everyone. I have emailed the council with the information I have and they have confirmed they will investigate it.

If the LL hasn't done anything wrong then fine no harm done but if they have then it will now be dealt with.

OP posts:

K8Middleton · 11/04/2014 18:28

Good.

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