Am I entitled to an explanation if no progress in writing?

[caffeinated]

Just that really. Finished year 2 on level 3 across the board. Now 3a for reading and maths and still 3c for writing. Which I know isn't uncommon in year 3 and progress is slower and the curriculum is broader. But could be dd is struggling in some aspect that I am unaware of?

No harm in asking. They'll probably say that progress isn't always linear and it's nothing to worry about, but I'm guessing you'd like some ideas about how to encourage writing development.

I would ask, Caff, if only for peace of mind. It probably isn't anything to worry about (I seem to remember dd1 not moving much on writing in Y3, but has leaped forwards in Y4) but if you don't ask...!

Thanks, that's the issue for me that they don't give any indication of levels until feb half term parents evening and I don't want to wait til then in year 4 to find something is holding her back if its something we can realistically work on together beforehand.

Caffeinated:

Short answer: YES!

Notionally progress over entirety of KS2 (Y3 - Y6) should be 2 full NC Levels (6 sub levels - so if '3' at end Y2 - notionally start 3c at beginning Y3 and finish 5c at end Y6). But - there is no particular specification by year.

No progress in one year is worrying - but can happen (notionally teachers at our school are expected to demonstrate 2 sub-levels of progress against NC Levels - but through APP points I think). So the teacher will have to explain this internally anyway - and it seems reasonable to understand what that explanation is yourself.

It can be that your DD was reassessed at start of Y2 (internally by teacher) and NC 3 rating was rolled back to 2a or lower. So it may be there was progress - but you weren't aware of re-appraisal of ability downward at start of term (this can be common with inflation at end of infants within or between schools).

Also good to ask what you could be doing to support progress in this area over the summer/ at home.

HTH

Sellbydate I had wondered if ks1 results were a bit optimistic for writing in the first place. Separate infant and juniors but maths and reading seemed to be accurate.

Are schools expected to see 2 levels of progress from ks1 results or assessment on starting year 3?

Not a teacher - but from what I glean here on MN (often from rather grumpy teachers who don't like my theories on 'downgrading' of KS1 SATs results - although if you go to the MN education staffroom they talk about it all the time) there can be NC Level inflation at KS1 SATs.

My understanding is that the school either has to demonstrate that KS1 SATs were inflated & plenty of documentation at start of Y3 that NC Levels in specific areas are much lower (optional SATs, teacher assessed work, workbooks, etc...) or they have to honour KS1 SATs scores and achieve at least 2 full NC Levels better.

So in theory your DD with NC Level 3 in all areas is predicted to achieve NC Level 5 in all areas and the school will be monitored to see if they achieve that progress (at least).

HTH

interesting discussion in MN education staffroom on this very topic here: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/the_staffroom/1788566-Any-junior-school-teachers-This-doesnt-sound-right

I didn't know there was a staff room.

Hi Caff

It's hidden

When you use the new menu bar select All Topics - scroll down to education & on the list (bottom right column) you'll find staff room - a quiet little backwater full of all sorts of revelations!

Good to search if you have a procedural question on things - just type in key word there and see what people are saying.

HTH

Have b

Have bookmarked it. Thanks.

I have read that learning tends to slow down in KS2, not sure if that is true or not. It wouldn't harm to ask. I'm going to ask why my Ds has only gone up 1 sub level in 2 years with additional support, and they think he is doing fantastic

Learning doesn't slow down in ks2. But neither is it linear.

Some children who scrape a l3 writing in ks1 don't meet our l3c criteria at ks2. The criteria are different - shouldn't be i know.

Even if we rebaseline them we still have to make 2 levels based on the reported ks1 result which means that to be acceptable we need to get some kids from 2a writing to 5c. At this point in the year i'm tired from the effort this takes!

Op i'd ask if they thought there was no progress and what you could do to support over the summer

You could be writing about DS.

He finished yr2 a 3C in writing and has finished yr3 on the same level.

His school report is not out till next week so I don't know what his other levels are.

His teacher said that technically his writing has everything in it that it should, but that it does not "flow" yet. She thinks it is because he is not yet mature enough (31stAug birthday).

Tbh I am not concerned about it but will be speaking to his yr4 teacher next year.

Considering levels are being abolished, not sure I would spend too much time worrying about the data itself. I would focus on what your DC can and can't do and if you feel they are under performing, with reason, have a conversation with the teacher. Looking at data for data's sake is unhelpful, as PastSellByDate has an excellent point. (and I'm a so called 'grumpy' teacher!)

Babies that's good advice thanks.

Blissx dd's school is an academy they have already said they plan on keeping levels after they are abolished after all the work they have put into making them effective for tracking progress and making targets.

My DC school is keeping levels too...

Good idea to ask what support can be done over the summer, I will be asking at parents eve next week

Your entitled to ask.

This happened to us and DS. He was not a level 3 though! (still isn't and is completing year 4!)

Juniors felt he had been sent up too high - which I had thought anyway. Also, and I've seen this happen across many Infant and junior schools, Infants give a 3c if a child is working within a 3c and a juniors give a 3c when a child has completed all aspects of 3c and is working within a 3b.
So chance are she made progress.

Some children who scrape a l3 writing in ks1 don't meet our l3c criteria at ks2. The criteria are different - shouldn't be i know.

Why? Are you in a separate junior school? That's the only way that could happen - whole school assessment procedures are used in a primary school.

PastSellBy - as BabiesLikeBuses says, it doesn't matter whether they are reassessed or not, the level at Y2 has to be honoured. Your imaginary case scenario of the school.....has to demonstrate that KS1 SATs were inflated & plenty of documentation at start of Y3 that NC Levels in specific areas are much lower (optional SATs, teacher assessed work, workbooks, etc...) cannot happen - it isn't possible. Stop misinforming parents.

Referring to 'grumpy teachers' doesn't make your continual misinformation seem any more credible, either, fgs.

So Feenie why would you say that a yr3 child has not made any progress (on paper NC wise, I can see his writing has improved)???

(Just curious)

He goes to an infant/junior school combined btw...

Depends entirely on the child, and I couldn't possibly comment. I have one child who hasn't made progress in writing this year, and it's purely down to attitude and reluctance to actually do any written work whatsoever.

OP definitely needs to ask the teacher.

PastSellBy, said grumpy teachers have always said that yes, it's a problem in separate infant schools who don't use good moderation across schools. Never seen anyone say otherwise - it's all in your head.

Thanks Feenie, he works very hard at school (although I am sure he can be silly like most 7yr olds!!)

This is the first time since reception that his birthdate has been mentioned.

(Sorry for hijack OP!)

I would ask next week. Both you and the OP need an explanation and information on how you can help. Good luck!

Thanks

Feenie - yes of course we are separate schools whatever gave it away! What has changed this year is that we have been allowed to fully moderate (token gesture in past). Ks1 staff were shocked at the rigour needed for l3 writing, one of the key phrases on our assessments is 'across a range of texts' where sometimes they relied heavily on narrative. Post moderation we are about to get the lowest set of results in 20 years (breathes a sigh of relief).

simpson honestly i'd be surprised if the august birthday was still relevant at ks2, it really shouldn't be. If you can see improvements in his writing trust your instincts - he may be 'tipping into' the next sublevel or maybe was barely there last year. Levels do get broader further up but you should still see progress on paper - even in y3.