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Primary education

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

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Original poster

Y1 NC levels

41 replies

christinarossetti · 25/05/2013 20:21

I know, I know, I shouldn't have allowed myself to get caught up in discussions about Y1 childrens' levels but I did. Bloody idiot.

Anyway, was informed by one mum that her dd is 'top level 2/cusp of level 3 across the board' at this point of Y1 although 'they' don't usually award L3 in Y1 etc etc.

I wasn't that bothered at the time, but have been brooding on it, especially the bit about how her dd is now on target for level 6s in Y6. They don't start trying to predict where children will be at the end of primary in Y1, do they? Or maybe they do, as 'demonstrating progress' is all the rage these days?

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Periwinkle007 · 25/05/2013 20:32

I would be amazed if they could predict Yr6 results from Yr1 results and I certainly doubt the school would have said that to her.

and what is across the board? I thought it was only really literacy and numeracy that were measured at this stage (mind we are still in reception so I have no real idea)

Original poster

christinarossetti · 25/05/2013 20:38

Yes, I agree. This particular mum is always very keen to tell me that her children go to a 'much better' school than mine do, so she really gets me on the wobble.

Actually, I've been very happy both with my children's school and the progress they've made.

That's a good point about 'across the board' - I don't actually know what she meant, but it sounded impressive at the time!

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learnandsay · 25/05/2013 20:39

Sounds like a load of horse's arse.

simpson · 25/05/2013 20:41

In Yr1 I got DS's scores in numeracy, reading and writing (IIRC) and then in yr2 got speaking & listening and science added on (NC level wise in his report).

I would have thought it would be pretty hard to be level 3 across the board in yr1 (although not impossible).

I thought yr2 SATS results helped to determine yr6 targets anyway...

simpson · 25/05/2013 20:42

A mum that is keen to tell others their DC scores all the time are usually lying (bitter experience)....

CalicoRose · 25/05/2013 20:43

Top level 2 at end of Y1 is exceptionally good, and so is level 6 in Y6, so it would seem reasonable to dream about it / hope for it in her position.

However, I presume what you're really thinking about is your own DD - and it's far too early to guess what she'll be like in 5 years time.

You could of course say statistically she's most likely to get a 3/4/5 - but that doesn't mean she (or your friends DD) will.

Periwinkle007 · 25/05/2013 20:50

I think age still generally plays an enormous part at the end of Yr1.

Awakeagain · 25/05/2013 20:55

Level 3 in year 1
Never ever ever heard if it!!
I suppose it is possible but many children find level 3 in yr 2 difficult (booster groups etc to achieve)
I'd be very surprised if this was 'across the board' writing is very technical at level 3 and I'd be surprised if a 5/6 yr old knew and understood how to write like that (let alone write enough)
Maths similarly - times tables, fractions, more complex sums

Rant over I'm a bit at this!!

learnandsay · 25/05/2013 20:55

FSM, Black boys, SEN, etc, there are lots of inhibitors.

learnandsay · 25/05/2013 20:57

Awake, why would you even take notice of such a woman. I'd laugh in her face.

Original poster

christinarossetti · 25/05/2013 21:07

Thanks all. I didn't really get caught up in it at the time, as this particular mum is always a bit 'oh my children go to a really fabulous school and poor you, yours don't', but her self-assurance is hard to completely brush off.

I think it's that really. I know our school doesn't look at good on paper (different catchment area to start with) but I've been very pleased with it and have no concerns at all about my children's academic progress, but it's hard not to worry a bit.

Is level 3 in Y1 unheard of? This mum made it sound like it was a walk in the park.

OP posts:

simpson · 25/05/2013 21:08

Agree with awakeagain - it might be possible to be a level 3 in one area but I would have thought writing and even reading is a stretch.

DS was a 3c across the board in yr2 and he is finding the push to get a higher level 3 in writing especially tough (and I fully expect the same score in his end of yr3 report - his teacher has said he is not mature enough yet as he is 31st Aug born)...

DD (5) is a 2A (in reading only) but I have been told not to expect progress for a while as she is also not mature enough to cope with the higher level stuff...

lastnightidreamt · 25/05/2013 21:17

I think you would have to be pretty exceptional to reach that standard in year 1, but it doesn't necessarily follow that that progress will be maintained. (I usually give mothers like this a wide berth!)

However, I did once find a pretty depressing report when trawling the internet years ago. It was how GCSE results are predicted from year 2 SATS - pages and pages of calculations based on 6/7 year old's results. I could have cried as DS had just done pretty badly in his SATS. Years on, he is doing absolutely fine, and IMO these predictions are just time-wasting rubbish.

Smartiepants79 · 25/05/2013 21:28

Yr 6 results are predicted from yr2 SATs. However this is purely for schools benefit and I'd be surprised if any teacher would be foolish enough to share this with parents as it is such along time til they reach yr 6. We would only share predictions for the next school year.
Level 3 in yr 1 in some areas could be possible but unlikely...
And achieving level 3 in ks1 is quite different to achieving it in ks2 as many borderline level 3 kids learn to their cost.

BardOfBarking · 25/05/2013 21:33

I teach in a school with 120 year 1s (4 form entry) This year we have 5 level 3 readers, 2 level 3 writers and no level 3 maths. (it is very hard to show level 3 maths because there is so much we simply haven't taught them yet) Yes, if a child was level 3 at year 1 we would be predicting level 6 at KS2 SATs but it is rare.

freetrait · 25/05/2013 21:46

And I believe they are getting rid of these numbers in September 2014? I think mrz reported? No idea about the numbers. DS can read very well, can write very well for Y1 and apparently is good at Maths (haven't witnessed this myself yet).
Yes, I would avoid this sort of discussion with other Mums! Also, no point in peaking too soon, it could all be downhill from Y1 .

BardOfBarking · 25/05/2013 21:50

And achieving level 3 in ks1 is quite different to achieving it in ks2 as many borderline level 3 kids learn to their cost.

This shouldn't be the case smartiepants a level 3 is a level 3. There is no such thing as a key stage 1 level 3. There is some sloppy levelling going on if a child who is level 3 at year 2 is judged not to be at year 3!

quip · 25/05/2013 21:53

I have a ds in y1 who has been assessed by school as L3 in maths. He's pretty exceptional as a maths whizzkid though, and taught himself most of it as his class are still doing the typical y1 stuff. He's a bright kid but is on gold band books and os assessed as 2b for reading and 1a for writing. L3 all round is pretty far out there. I can imagine ds being L3 for reading if he was autumn born rather than a summer baby but writing at higher levels takes maturity beyond y1 I think.

freetrait · 25/05/2013 21:55

It must be open to interpretation. A young child showing precocious talent still (most of the time?) needs to develop and broaden and become both more accurate and rounded in what they are doing. It would be a bit sad if they didn't really.

JewelFairies · 25/05/2013 21:59

I have absolutely no idea whether my dd has reached any level! Honestly, we are talking about 5/6 year olds here. Does it really matter? I know my dd's book band and I feel very proud of how well she reads. She's nowhere near the top of the class but has progressed astronomically from where she started at in reception (glue ear, speech delay, bilingual, very very shy).
I have no doubts that she is quite bright in her own way and will go far with the right support. Knowing her 'levels' wouldn't make any difference to me.

BabiesAreLikeBuses · 25/05/2013 23:53

We predict y6 results based on reception assessment, but this is for teacher's purposes, to support children who numerically fall behind, they get flagged up as 'red'.
I would be surprised if writing is l3 and feel sorry for the kid, diff to maintain that kind of progress without maturity and life experience, hope the school don't put pressure on with their target setting.

simpson · 26/05/2013 09:17

I know DD's end of reception scores/results (whatever you call them!) have already set her KS1 targets (HT told me).

A bit at reception assessments setting yr6 targets though...

musicalfamily · 26/05/2013 12:14

It is easy to get caught up in the levels thing, but what really matters is progress. So for example if your child is exceptionally good in one area and they don't appear to have made much progress, even if their levels appear high, I would worry.

Conversely if they appear low but the child has made steady progress, I wouldn't worry. I normally keep some pieces of work beg/mid/end of the year, just to remind myself of progress and not panic!!

noisytoys · 26/05/2013 12:27

DD is in the last term of Reception and is level 2a for reading and writing and 2c for maths so I wouldn't be surprised if she is level 3 by next year. I wouldn't dream of bragging to anyone though that's a terrible attitude to have I hope it doesn't rub off on her DCs

FadedSapphire · 26/05/2013 13:12

Other Mum sounds like one to be avoided- or at least openly glaze over when she starts up- sad, sad woman.
Also how rude of her to badmouth school your child at...
Let's hope her child has a fun life not just an NC level obsessed one....

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