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Primary education

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

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Original poster

Does your children's school have a religious assembly every day?

59 replies

reddaisy · 03/05/2013 22:58

I am an atheist. Our DD is due to start primary school in September and her school is not a CoE school but it holds collective worship assemblies every day of a Christian nature. I am firmly of the belief that schools should be secular. I know I can withdraw her from assembly but DD would not thank me for that and offer our own views at home (so far I have managed to explain that some people believe in God, that a lot of people don't and that she can decide what she thinks herself)

What is normal in schools these days? I think daily collective worship is excessive and frankly is pisses me off that my DD will be indoctrinated in this way at school.

OP posts:

LindyHemming · 03/05/2013 23:14

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

DuelingFanjo · 03/05/2013 23:16

I think legally they have to have some collective worship but not daily? Someone who knows more will probably come and explain. I was raised without religion and was kept out of assemblies a bit when I was really little but as I got older I attended them and I still think religion is a made-up pile of rubbish. I feel the same as you about the way young kids have this forced upon them in schools but many people seem to think it should be the status quo for some reason.

Original poster

reddaisy · 03/05/2013 23:22

Yes I believe it is indoctrination in order to keep the church going. Children are extremely impressionable and they are told these stories as fact and I think it is fundamentally wrong. The school isn't a faith one but does have strong links with the village church I told the head my thoughts when I looked around (I bet they love parents like me!) but I just wish we didn't all just accept this kind of thing in our schools when the vast majority of adults don't go to church.

OP posts:

level3at6months · 03/05/2013 23:23

Does giving her the chance to think about it indoctrinate her more than excluding her from it?

Bunnyjo · 03/05/2013 23:55

DD's school is also not CofE but very closely linked to the village CofE church. They have daily collective worship and the vicar takes assembly once a week.

If you feel that strongly then withdraw her from collective worship, as is your right.

From the DofE website

All maintained schools in England must provide a daily act of collective worship. This must reflect the traditions of this country which are, in the main, broadly Christian.

Parents have the right to withdraw their child from the daily act of collective worship and sixth-formers can decide for themselves whether or not to attend, without giving a reason for doing so. Schools must comply with this wish and must ensure a duty of care for pupils who are withdrawn from collective worship.

Whether you like it or not, the school is merely complying with regulations.

DuelingFanjo · 03/05/2013 23:56

We are all born without religion. Making religious worship a compulsory part of schooling and putting the onus on parents to withdraw their children from that part of the school day is not offering choice, it is treating religion as the normal state of affairs when it really should not be.

It would be so much better if parents were left to do their own thing religion wise, rather than defaulting to religions the norm for everyone.

Original poster

reddaisy · 04/05/2013 06:40

I am not going to withdraw her and mark her out as different. And it doesnt give her a chance to think about it` - it tells her there is a God. I am v happy for her to receive religious education in a context that some people believe x and others believe y.

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LaBelleDameSansPatience · 04/05/2013 06:55

All English primaries must have a daily act of collective worship. It does not appear to indoctrinate children in the long run - many of my year 6's don't believe in God at the moment.

It seems to wind up a lot of parents, but, if done well, is a positve experience for children which is more about spirituality than Christianity, which should be presented as an alternative - ie 'I believe' or 'some people believe'.

There are lots of threads on here about this.

SwishSwoshSwoosh · 04/05/2013 06:59

I feel sad more parents don't withdraw actually, if that is your view. Why shouldn't people be different? What is wrong with different?

You said in your op that 'some people believe in god but lots of people dont' yet also you are telling your dd she has to go to religious worship to be the same as everyone else.

I bet if all the parents who want to withdraw did withdraw there would be more out of the hall than in it!

chickensaladagain · 04/05/2013 07:00

Dd's school has assembly every day but don't do prayers or bible stories unless its Christmas or Easter

They do -being kind to each other, sporting, charity, class assemblies where they share what they are learning

exoticfruits · 04/05/2013 07:21

There are no secular state schools. They have, by law, to hold collective worship everyday- see the education acts.
I find the 'indoctrination to keep the churches going' very funny- if it was true the churches would be overflowing on Sundays!
Children are not silly- they make up their own mind. One thing is for sure an adult never says 'I am an atheist' , 'I am a Christian' etc 'because my mother/teacher was' .

chickensaladagain · 04/05/2013 07:24

Dd's school has assembly every day but don't do prayers or bible stories unless its Christmas or Easter

They do -being kind to each other, sporting, charity, class assemblies where they share what they are learning

NynaevesSister · 04/05/2013 07:24

No sons school has never done this daily worship thing. We are in London.

exoticfruits · 04/05/2013 07:25

Threads like this turn up every few weeks- so many parents appear to have no understanding about the history of education and the education acts. If they went to a UK primary school themselves I don't see how they missed it, unless it was back when schools could be more relaxed in what they did, or they were at a faith school and didn't realise that those of us at community schools had a very similar experience.

WouldBeHarrietVane · 04/05/2013 07:26

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Blu · 04/05/2013 07:28

Two assemblies a week, never religious. They did observe cultural religious festivals, Christmas, Easter, Harvest, but not with praying. Frosty The Snowman and Rudolph at the carol service, harvest was generally songs about food from around the world.

It is an 'outstanding' school, too, so not sure what happened when Ofsted went in. Certainly DS has never said the Lord''s Prayer in primary or secondary.

exoticfruits · 04/05/2013 07:28

Do you know this for a fact,Nyna? I could have easily assumed the same with my DSs, had I not been a supply teacher at their school and attended some. They are breaking the law unless they have all the correct paperwork which isn't easy to get. It must also come up with Ofsted who will be looking at the spiritual side.

exoticfruits · 04/05/2013 07:30

As a supply teacher I have never had the Lords Prayer at any assembly.

exoticfruits · 04/05/2013 07:31

Generally the prayer is a time of reflection- they can make it a prayer, if they wish, by saying amen.

exoticfruits · 04/05/2013 07:32

It depends very much on how the Head interprets the education act.

JakeBullet · 04/05/2013 07:35

Not in my DS's school....and it's a catholic one. They have an assembly once a week which is a "Celebration Assembly" where they give out rewards, certificates etc....in other words it's a celebration of achievements by the children, then again 40% of the children are not Catholic so a religious assembly would not be appropriate.

Even the "Grace" said at lunchtime is "Rub a dub dub, thanks for the grub", much to the delight of the children

lougle · 04/05/2013 07:40

I was at DD2's school for an assembly a few weeks ago. It was on healthy living. The Christian element was a one line prayer, thanking God for the food we eat. Hardly indoctrination.

Original poster

reddaisy · 04/05/2013 08:25

I am well aware that there are no secular state schools and of my right to withdraw her but the point of my thread was to determine how schools interpret it. Daily collective worship for school which is not a faith school sounds excessive to me. Obviously I have not had a chance to observe said assemblies at DDs school yet as she hasn't started. To say that children do not take on the beliefs of their parents and teachers is naive. And even thanking God for food is wrong in my opinion, I might as well tell her that power rangers are real!

OP posts:

JakeBullet · 04/05/2013 08:47

Do ey have to be thanking "God" though? Surely a collective "thank you that we are fortunate enough to have enough food to eat" is fine. It doesn't have to be to "God". Even my so 's Catholic school doesn't name "God" in their lunchtime "thank you for the food". It's literally as I said below. Nowt wrong with that.

mrz · 04/05/2013 09:06

There is a statutory requirement that all maintained schools in England must provide a daily act of collective worship. This must reflect the traditions of this country which are, in the main, broadly Christian.

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