Have I got this right about appeals?

[Galena]

A few of my friends have been disappointed with the school they have been allocated and other friends have told them to appeal. I have told them that, unless there has been a mistake in applying the admissions criteria, there is absolutely no point appealing and they just need to put the child's name on the waiting list and hope children turn down their places/move away.

Am I right in this advice? As far as I can see it, appealing is pointless if it's just that they aren't happy with the choice. It's not terribly popular advice though!

I've heard this too. People round us saying left right and centre that they are going to turn down the school they have been offered and then the LEA will have to grant their appeal. Which is clearly bollocks.

Tiggy - One thing I don't quite understand. The school we wanted was totally full at reception (60 intake) but there are a couple of places in year one and two at the moment. So strictly there are less than 180 filled places. Is that still the first category of appeal, because reception is full? It seems like it should be, but these rules are so confusing!

The size limit is per class, so if you want a year 1 or year 2 place then they'd have to give it to you (assuming there are still less than 30 in each class). If you want a reception place and there are already 30 per class, then you wouldn't win unless in exceptional circumstances.

Thanks Rue. Gosh, a bit of the process that is straightforward and logical. Who knew you'd find one of those?

I know Tiggy. I've only heard it second hand or I would have said that to them. certainly round here she could even accept the place and ask to be considered for some of the under subscribed school s locally even though she didnt previously apply.

We used to live in SW London and it was not unknown for appeals to be won/waiting lists rejigged on the basis of distance - the council often measured the route to a school wrongly. It happened in our case and affected everyone on our street and in the surrounding streets.

Though you don't need to appeal to correct distance or at least we didn't, it was sorted before the appeal was held.

I think Wandsworth have changed their method for measuring distance now though.

It depends of course in the grounds for the appeal.

We appealed for dd2 as she didn't get into the same school as her brother two years back. We used medical grounds ( she is deaf) but still didn't get the place! Luckily two people dropped out so she did go in the end. It's a really diffcult thing to win. Also, at our school, there are always massive waiting lists for early years but years 3 and 4 tend to have places as a fair few children go to the local prep schools at 7/8. It means the school has fewer pupils than it can take but in the 'wrong' years!!

Thanks all - I shall continue to advise that appeals are unlikely to be won in school is full, and that they would do well to put on waiting list and either accept place or home school in the meantime...

It's all so difficult!

Oh absolutley I agree. It was never going to be won really. But they did at least see us and appreciate the problems. What I always say to people though who go for appeals is never say it's about the distance between two schools -if it means two at different schools - it has to be about what is best for the child, not the parents.

Our Reception class is taught by 2 qualified teachers as they job share, but presumably they can still have only 30 as only one teacher is with the class at any one time?

Thans again, Tiggy.

Our early years has an admission limit of 45, and two qualified teachers in the unit plus TAs. How does that relate to the 30 class size limit?

There is a school locally that has an intake of 45 in Reception (with 2 teachers) and has a Year 1 class of 30 pupils, a Year 2 class of 30 pupils and a mixed Year 1/Year 2 class of 30 pupils. As tiggytape says the infant school class size rule applies for Reception, Year 1 and Year 2.

Ok, so our school does indeed take 45 and then split them into 3 mixed classes of 30 at ks1. However, it is recognised as a 'turbulent' school where the cohort that finishes reception and y1 is never the same as the one that starts.

So could it not be argued that if there were strong reasons to admit one extra in reception, all the school would have to do to ensure correct numbers in Y1/2 is not 'replace' one in year leaver in either reception or y1?

Sorry, the system does not work like that. In order that a place can be offered at the school a vacancy has to be created first.
In your specific situation you will have two small classes of 22/23 in reception year and then three classes of 30 across year 1 and year 2. The classes in year 1 and year 2 are at the maximum of 30 per school teacher under the infant class size regulations and therefore to admit any more in reception(even though the classes are not at 30) would create a future problem of breaking the infant class size regulations in year 1, assuming no change in numbers. This is referred to as future prejudice and would stop any addition to reception classes.

As an aside, you can still have a class over thirty if the cutoff comes between siblings (eg where twins are pupils 30 and 31, or siblings born 11m apart in Sept and Aug).

I gather this rule was added last year. It applies to DS1's R class.