Do the primary school league tables include those children with SEN?

[CaptainVonTrapp]

Trying to figure out how a school with a high % of children with statements achieved 100% 'Expected level in English and Maths'.

Thanks

I guess that depends on what your expectations are. If you don't expect 30% of your pupils to achieve very much and they don't achieve very much then you got what you expected.

Only in very exceptional circumstances would a child not sit SATS and be included. To be exempt, a child has to be considerably behind to the point of not being able to access the tests in anyway.

Not true, I'm afraid - it doesn't matter how far behind or how severe the SEN, the results are included, no matter what.

The only tie a child's results are exempt is if they have recently arrived in the UK with little English.

time

My DS has SN and got level 5s. He was included in the results.

Our Infwnt school has a special needs class, some of them sever disabled, and all are required to sit Sats and the results are taken part of the school's results.

don't forget that some purely physical disabled children are counted towards SEN and just because of logistic problems or a helper with some tasks. They not necessarily are less mental capable than a non-statement child.

Like TheNebulous, I have a statemented child who attained all level 5s.

The two other statemented children at his former primary are also the highest achievers in their year groups.

SEN does not mean incapable of high academic performance.

Our Infwnt school has a special needs class, some of them sever disabled, and all are required to sit Sats and the results are taken part of the school's results.

That's not quite true either - the sitting bit, at least - because KS1 is teacher assessment only. Sitting tests is a very small part of the overall assessment, and is only appropriate if a child is working at level 2 or above. Any child, SEN or not, working below level 2 would not do a test, but their overall teacher assessment is included in the school's results, as you say.

The same is true of KS2 - only children working at level 3 or above 'sit' a test - a child working below level 3 would not be required to do those tests, but their assessment would go down as not achieving level 4 or above.

But in cases where SEN does mean low ability the results are still included in the league table results for the school, although the child might not physically sit the tests.

Cross posts!!

cumbria and feenie - excellent, factual answers to the OP's question...

Others of us were responding to the implication that SEN children couldn't possibly achieve 'expected levels', which displays a shocking ignorance of what SEN (or 'statemented') means

Thanks for the information everyone.

I appreciate that SEN doesn't mean incapable of high academic performance.

However, at the school in question nearly 15% of children have a SEN. With such a high percentage I was surprised they still achieved 100% in the 'level 4 or above in English/maths'.

Even a physical disability would make it harder for a child to achieve (in terms of for eg missed time for hospital appts)

Mind you, no more shocking than my LEA's implementation of a policy to fund SEN provision in schools through a calculation involving average parental incomes/house prices within catchment. Because only poor people's children have Cerebral Palsy or Autism or Epilepsy or Dyslexia. Apparently. But that's another story!!

Yes tiggytape I mean nationally expected nc levels i.e Level 2's in Year 2 and level 4's in Year 6.

OP, I'm pretty sure that 15% SEN is lower than average (if you mean all children on register, not just statements) - I think the average is something like 17-20%.

IS the school in question quite small - or do you have any other inside of this school? Are you looking at it for your child?

Ds's cohort last year got 100% level 4 and 70% level 5. In the level 5s, were 10% autistic children (ds) and 20% dyslexic. I wouldn't have though that was that unusual.

So the provision you get in school depends what you parents earn???

In an inverse proportion, CVT!!! ie, only the schools with a low income catchment get decent pots of SEN money - meaning schools with higher amounts of SEN (like a reputation for being good with autism, say, or happen to have more children with physical SEN) but an average or higher than average house price bracket get much less money. Hence my sarcasm.

Sounds Kafkaesque, but true. I asked the Head of SEN at the LEA why they thought only poorer people had SEN and she couldn't give me an answer.

Ok, apparently the 2011 figure is 17.8% of children in mainstream schools have an SEN. So the school in question in the OP is below average.

ok 15% seemed like a lot to me because I'm comparing it to a school that has 2%. Perhaps its the latter thats unusual.

x post

interesting, wonder if thats national or local.

thanks books.

That's from the dfe website. But, as I say, includes all pupils on register, not just statements which is much lower. And, of course, in a small school you're only talking a few pupils either way (for SEN, FSM, Sats results) or any other measure!

yes it is small ?22 pupils that must make a big difference.