Class sizes in year 3

[magdalene]

Hello
Can you tell me if the class size limit is 30 for year 3 please. Wondering if I have more chance moving my daughter at this stage.

Yr 3 is KS2 so not legally limited to 30 AFAIK. BUT individual school may be limited by classroom size.

and PAN

That's good to hear. I wonder how many most schools go up to.

Sorry, what's PAN?

DS is in a class of 34 in year 3. Last year in year 2 there were two classes of 17 which have joined back together this year. They have TA help which they didn't have (or need really) last year.

Pupil Admission Number

DS's school have gone up to 31 but its VERY squashed . Even 30 is a squash, not sure they have the space to go as afar as 32 in the KS2 classrooms.

DS has 31 because the school is limited to 30 a year but a child with special needs came in after the class was full. Now they will have to lose 2 kids before a non-SEN kid can get in. (the head would take everyone but the authority is strict)

No I think it is 32. My DC school always go up to 32 as soon as they get to year 3 anyway!

I've known KS2 classes of 34 and 35.

I think PAN is published admissions numbers or something like that. Although DC's school has PAN of 30 I think and definitely more than that per year in the whole school.

I'd go for Published Admission Number rather than Pupil Admission Number. But to answer the original question, there is no legal limit on class sizes from Y3 onwards. It is therefore easier to win an admissions appeal once you get to Y3.

We have 35. Which is 5 too many - but with a PAN of 105, what can the school do? 4 classes = small classes, cost of 4 teachers. 3 classes = more budget scope but an overcrowded room. LAs really don't think these things through.

PANs would apply to intake per year, rather than class. Allegedly based on local demographics.

I am worried about DS1, as his year group is a 1-form entry, and tbh the school hasn't got a free classroom right now (DS2's yr is 3-form entry, all others are 2-form entry). End of Y4, there were 31. There's now, 3 weeks into Y5, 33. And a whole housing estate is just being filled in the area - all other schools are not LEA run, so do not have to take the extra's. Unlike this school. Can see DS1's class being 37+ by the end of Y6. .

"All other schools are not LEA run so do not have to take the extras" - That isn't true. In the circumstances you describe the LA's Fair Access Protocol will come into play. All schools are required to participate in the Protocol regardless of whether or not they are LA-controlled. It is, however, true that the LA can force its own schools to expand but has limited power to force academies, free schools and faith schools to do so.

And PAN is based on the school's net capacity, not local demographics.

It may not seem true - the other schools are foundation schools (?) and have NEVER had more than their PAN in any one class. Yet the only true LEA school in the area has run at above 30 even in the infants many times. When my DD started there as a mid-year transfer 6 years ago - she was the 37th dc in her mixed Y1/Y2 class. In reception, DS1 had 34 in his class. They split them for 2 terms of Y1, then they have been a single class running at between 29 & 33 since the start of Y2. It's just getting worse the higher up the school he goes. None of the other schools have any space in Y5 - they are all at 30 in their classes. Dead on. Not even one over.

There are 37 in my son's Y3 class. It's a two-form year and the other class is also heaving, but they have enough staff to break the year group into three classes for the morning literacy & numeracy sessions. But still: 37 kids is a lot. DS says it's very noisy.

There have been 2 new starters in DS1's Y3 class this term so size has gone from 30 to 32. The headmaster tried to prevent the first getting in stating he didn't want class sizes getting bigger than 30 but the parents won an appeal.

Ours is single form in KS2 and I think there are 34 in Year 3. People in catchment sometimes fail to gain entry to year R as it is and sEveral new housing developments are being built within catchment. It worries me. I wonder if they will change the catchment boundaries as other school in town are under subscribed.

prh of course it is published not pupil [doh] my excuse is a long day on a few hours sleep followed by an even longer traffic jam but after 12 hours sleep I'm awake and more alert
sorry OP

There were 35 children in each class in last year's Y5. The "extra" were all children that joined during the year. The school has added an extra class for this year Y6. Of course they were lucky that historically the school was larger so they had the space to do this.

25 in dd's Y3. Always less in Juniors, thanks to defectors