Funding question for deferring entry, does anyone know this stuff?

[MrsBlarney]

We're starting ds2 after Christmas as he was four in the summer and I wanted to give him a bit longer at home.

The HT is a bit funny at the best of times but said to me was I sure he's starting in January rather than at Easter, because she reckons they won't get any funding at all for him if he doesn't start in January.

Is this right? TBH I've not made my mind up completely yet and don't want to land the school in the sh*t if we start at Easter, however I can't be sure she isn't just saying it because she wants to make things awkward. (has been known)

Could anyone help me clarify this please? Thankyou

I think she's right TBH - I gather that they count the number of children on roll on a date in Jan and then the funding the school gets for the year is based on the number of children enrolled on that date.

Really?

That's bonkers thougn isn't it, as children can now defer till the summer term if they have a late birthday?

Thanks Bram.

Yes - it is based on pupils on the roll at end of January.

I have 2 late summer babies - one August and one June - both did part time from september until christmas - mornings only and then full time after that. DD2 (august baby) was still having an afternoon sleep until christmas!

Yes, it does seem a bit bonkers - although you could argue that they probably won't incurr any extra costs by taking one additional pupil after the date!

Oh really? Would they not?

I rang up admissions and they didn';t have a clue about it either. They just said it's up to me and I can send him when I like and they have to keep the place, funding or not.

I understood that already, I just didn't want to put the school out of pocket iyswim.

Sam, that sounds good. mine still has the odd nap in the afternoon, too

Funding for schools has many oddities - the first being that the budget runs 1 April to 31 March while schools generally operate 1 September to 31 August. The budget for each state school (as determined by the Local Authority) is primarily based on pupils on roll on a set date in January (usually Jan 20something) and the 'per pupil' total amount is used to determine the school budget for the following April to March. There may be other small funds (SEN for example) that get added to the overall budget figure. School Admin/seniorstaff/Governors have to set the next budget by end Feb.

Well I was assuming that most of the school budget is staff costs, so unless they would be taking on any extra staff just to cater for your DS, it won't increase their costs by that much.

Hmm difficult then Bram, I kNOW she doesn't want to make my life easy, and I don't think she would need extra staff for ds.

Just maybe she wants the extra funding they will get if he starts in Jan. I wonder what for.

Well I guess all schools want as much funding as possible, as it's never enough anyway (see numerous threads on here about teachers having to buy classroom materials out of their own pockets).

Yes, I don't seriously think it's for the staff room whisky cabinet

I'm glad if she isn't making up stuff to try and sway my decision. That's good.

Will probably go with January anyway. Thanks again.

But you of course must do what's right for your DS. For now I'd say that he'll start in Jan, but if nearer the time he's not ready, talk about deferring again.

Ok, that's great that you've said that because I was worried in case he isn't ready by then...iyswim.

We'll aim for January and see what happens.

Because you have accepted the place the school must employ enough teachers to cover his place from September even if you don't take it up. However if you don't take the place before the financial cut off date in January the school are essentially "out of pocket" because they have staffed a place that hasn't been used and will not be funded for the next financial year (when he will have started).

The system is daft! If a child has accepted a place it should be funded regardless of their start date as this would stop schools pressurising the younger children to start earlier.

Your child is officially registered as a pupil at the school, but with deferred entry till January.

Funding is based mainly on the number of pupils attending a school on a set date in January, so the school's funding from April 2012 to March 2013 will include your child whether they start in September, January or after Easter. The head teacher is wrong but I would not assume that this is deliberate as there are many myths about school funding of which this is one.

If you wish to defer further after January, you will need to discuss this and get agreement with the head teacher, because if you do not turn up in January you will be de-registered after a set period of time.

For information staffing costs of schools are generally about 80 to 85% of budget but do obviously vary depending on the school. Each Local Authority has their own funding formula for schools and they tend to be very complicated but on average for a primary school 65 to 80 % of the school budget is directly related to pupil numbers with the rest being allocations per school. The smaller the school usually the lower the % that is directly attributable to pupil numbers.

Many thanks...so Admission, it essentially means if he is going to attend the school during this year, ie has been offered a place there, they will still get the funding for next year based on his inclusion?

If so that is what I wanted to know. Thankyou. It means I'm free to make the decision without the guilt of possibly depriving the school of funding.

I will pass this on to the HT and let her know in advance if we don't intend to start him after Christmas.

Thanks again everyone.

On the January date each teacher will have to write a list of which children are absent, why and when they last saw them in class, so if you DS is not there I don't think they will get the funding for him. The money will come into school to cover the period Apr '12-mar '13, so he will be in school to need it.

Admission is right. It is the number of children on the roll that matter for funding purposes. Your child is still on the roll even if you have deferred entry.