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Primary education

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

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Original poster

Class size requirements

28 replies

tegan · 08/01/2011 09:21

DD2 (6yrs old) is in yr 2, she has 15 boys and dd and another girl in her class. I was wondering if there is any legal requirement for there to be more girls in a class as socially dd is struggling. If i have to i will ask for her to go into either class 1 or 3 just for the social aspect.

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DullWomenHaveImmaculateHomes · 08/01/2011 09:54

No legal requirement. It can vary massively in small schools and I've come across lots like it. What about the other girl though? If you move your DD the other poor thing will be left behind. Is she friendly with girls in other classes who she can play with at break times?

IndigoBell · 08/01/2011 12:59

Only 17 kids in the class? Is it a private school?

Clary · 08/01/2011 14:40

That sounds very difficult indeed for the poor girls.

17 in the class is small - is it a private school?

No legal req re ratios, not as far as I know anyway.

I know a school so small that the yr6 that left last year was just two pupils - luckily both boys, but even then, bit of a small friendship pool.

Sorry not much help - but how about approaching the school to see if they can identify any girls in other years who could be buddies to yr DD and the other girl? DD is pretty friendly with lots of the girls in the yr below her, mainly thanks to Brownies.

mrz · 08/01/2011 14:44

I'm assuming it isn't single class entry???

Original poster

tegan · 08/01/2011 16:23

no it's not a private school.

The mother of the other girl has already been in to complain about the situation and told the school she is considering taking all 3 of the dc out of the school because of this situation.

dd and the other gil have never really been close friends and even now they are not really taking alot of notice of each other.

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PixieOnaLeaf · 08/01/2011 16:26

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Original poster

tegan · 08/01/2011 16:29

i know and i fully understand that they can't drag kids off the street, i just think its a shame these 2 girls are missing out on birthday parties and play dates

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PixieOnaLeaf · 08/01/2011 16:32

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mrz · 08/01/2011 16:34

Is there another parallel class full of girls?

PixieOnaLeaf · 08/01/2011 16:44

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mrz · 08/01/2011 16:49

I know that Pixie but I was trying to work out what the OP problems with. Now I could understand it if one class was mainly boys with only a couple of girls and the other having lots of girls but if it is a single class then I'm not sure what she wants the school to do.
For the record there was only one boy in my year group at primary school.

PixieOnaLeaf · 08/01/2011 16:53

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IndigoBell · 08/01/2011 17:08

Why can't your DD be friends with boys? All of my children have always had a best friend of the opposite sex. There's nothing at all unusual about it - especially in year 2.

Most people here would do anything to get their child into a class of only 16 children.

Original poster

tegan · 08/01/2011 18:00

I don't really have a huge problem with the fact there are only 3 girls but the school don't seem to want to let them mix with other year groups in lesson time.

Dd has always got on very well with the boys seeing as they have all been together through playgroup but now the boys are all on the same rugby team and as such play very rough and even though dd can handle herself she tends to end up getting into trouble if she retaliates

No she doesn't do any activities outside of school because the ones there are you need to drive to and dh works nights and take sthe car

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mrz · 08/01/2011 18:06

I'm afraid she is at school to be educated and as such there aren't opportunities to mix with other classes in lesson times.

DullWomenHaveImmaculateHomes · 08/01/2011 21:37

tegan I'm afraid this is just something you have to accept when you send your child to a small school. I know you probably don't have much of a choice with where she goes but the others are right. The school isn't going to do anything about lesson times - they need to be in their own classrooms with their own teacher. The only thing they'd be able to help with is playtimes.

Have you thought about asking some of the girls in other classes over to play at your house?

Karoleann · 08/01/2011 21:41

My sons class is the same 12 boys and 3 girls. I don't think any of the boys play with the girls.
Personally, if it had been the other way round ie 12 girls, we would have sent him elsewhere

asmallbunchofflowers · 09/01/2011 00:23

It does sound difficult for the girls but, as has been said already, there's nothing the school can do. They're not under any kind of obligation to search for more girls to fill the class.

Do you have other girls living nearby, to do a lift-share to Rainbows or Brownies, say? Have you invited any child, boy or girl, to come home for tea?

Original poster

tegan · 09/01/2011 07:33

Thanks for all the comments. The school isn't that small with all the other classes being around 30 kids.

I have spoken to a member of my local education authority and they said that the girls should be moved to other classes for non core subjects and free play.

also they should be ability tested and maybe moved to a class better suited to their ability.

not sure these are great ideas but have a meeting on monday with the school so will find out then

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mrz · 09/01/2011 08:17

I have spoken to a member of my local education authority and they said that the girls should be moved to other classes for non core subjects and free play.

I don't know who you have spoken to at the LA but they clearly haven't got a clue how schools teach or the expectations for Y2 classes in particular.

Firstly it is unlikely other classes won't be taught the same non core subject topics (it is progressive with new aspects taught in each year) as your daughter's class so this will leave a gap in subject knowledge. Secondly I don't know any KS2 classes that get free play (actually I don't know many Y2 classes that get free play) so are they suggesting moving her down a year to Y1? If so then infant class size law will apply.

Simbacatlives · 09/01/2011 08:27

Tegan. I don't know who you spoke to at the la but that simply isn't correct.

The la should have refused to comment on an individual case at the school and requested that you talk to the head teacher and governing body. The organization of classes is not within the la jurisdiction.

There is no requirement at all for the girls to be moved and so if they used the word should that is incorrect.

Children should not be taught out of chronological age and should not be moved based on ability out of their class. The school should meet the needs of the child within their class (this may include working with another class for some areas) but it would never be good practice to move a child out of their own age class full time.

Original poster

tegan · 09/01/2011 10:04

thanks, only relaying what i have been told.

dd's class have free play for the lesson straight after lunch on a friday as do most of the classes at her school even the juniors get time to do what they want like read, play a board game but the girls usually use this time for a bit of a gossip.

alot of the schools round here have mixed year groups so i took what i was told as dd would just be moved up or down depending on her ability.

1 local school has 3 class rooms. 1 for yr R 1 and 2, 1 for yr 3 and and 1 for yr 5 and 6

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mrz · 09/01/2011 10:30

Lots of small schools have mixed age classes (for all lessons not just none core subjects so they are taught as a class not as a year group, however this isn't the case in your daughter's school ) and you say your daughter's class is the only small class the others have 30 pupils so moving her down would break infant class size limits.

crazymum53 · 09/01/2011 15:08

I second the suggestion of Rainbows9age 5 to 7) or Brownies (age7-10). This really helped my dd who was in a class of mostly boys in Y2. This was because the school had a policy of siblings being taught by the same teacher in KS1 so there was a parallel class of mainly girls. New head has changed this so that numbers are more equal now - but it wasn't as extreme as in your case. Could cause problems in the long term as there is evidence that girls and boys learn in different ways. Also may cause problems with PE as may miss out on girls games such as netball.

Original poster

tegan · 10/01/2011 11:20

ok i have just returned from a meeting with the deputy head as the head is never there and probably wouldn't even know who dd is.

next year because of dd's class size they will be introducing a mixed year group. I'm not sure how this will wok as the school haven't sorted it out yet but at least dd will be in a class with girls so that is a bonus

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