Pre-schools and non-potty trained children-advice please

[doubleshotespresso]

So....... our 3 year old is resisting all potty-training methods. We have umpteen singing/light-up potties, frog shaped toilet seat "fun" ladder/seat things, have downloaded and played to death every potty training song ever produced and bought the flashcards... She is simply not having it.
I have tried consecutive days of pants only-cue lots of tears, tantrums and mess....

Spoke months ago to the nursery who assured me that the pre-school transition would be no problem and that they would allow her to develop in her own time.

But no- now they've "decided" that she has to remain in nursery where she is clearly bored and missing her friends until she is dry....

Any words of wisdom for me? I could actually cry/scream with frustration right now....

My horribly stubborn son potty trained himself at 3yrs 4m. I knew he could do it but he certainly didn't want to. One day he declared he wanted to wear pants and hes literally never had an accident since. I appreciate this isn't helpful for the preschool situation but don't despair with the toilet training.

Starwhisperer thanks- no not giving up- i am far too invested in this all by now! Just furious that she is doing well in everything else it seems and is now being held back and getting behind her peers due to this, especially when I was told otherwise ages ago....

sigh

I am surprised they are able to do this. - there are a variety of reasons why a child might be in nappies over 3 - including disabilities and medical conditions and some children may just not have reached this developmental stage in this one area , it is discriminatory to say a child has to stay in with younger children because of this one area.

What are they doing to positively support your dd in this area?

hazeyjane This is just it- i have a few friends who have stated the same about discrimination, but where can I find evidence to take to them? Is this actually law?

In terms of support, their current approach seems to be to keep her in nursery until she's dry.... They are "trying" to encourage her to use the toilet (as of course are we at home) but she's not interested, just sits there and sings!

Aaagghhh

You could happen a look at the ERIC website - although many of the guidelines they link to relate to schools, I'm not sure about moving between rooms. If a child had a disability/medical condition, they would not be able to keep them in the nursery room (otherwise what would they do if a child doesnt achieve other areas of development.....'oh the non verbal 4 year old is still in the baby room'....bloody ridiculous) One thing I would say to them though is that being in a room with peers who are using the toilet and modelling a positive attitude to toileting would be much better for her development than keeping her in with the younger children.

yes I saw the ERIC website. Lots of helpful info, was just hoping I had something a bit firmer to quote at them if you know what I mean. So it's not exactly rooms, the pre-school is attached to the nursery and means uniform etc , so "big school" as far as little ones are concerned. She is currently stuck in the biggest nursery room presumably until her 21st Birthday/ until she is dry, whichever comes first!

Thanks for your suggestions too...

The first thing you should do is ask to see their intimate care policy (which they should have) - they shouldn't be able to discriminate against any child who isn't toilet trained, and it should state as such on their policies and guidelines

They can't do this to her. She should move up with her peers whether she is dry or not. I can't link to this document but if you google 'toileting policy early years' and go down to the 'Continence guidance in Early years Foundation Stage settings' by www.thegrid.org it shows all the relevant regulations.

Also, ask to see their policies on intimate care which should have a section in it that they do not discriminate against children who are wearing nappies. If it doesn't it should.

I hope you get this resolved as it won't be doing her self-esteem any good by being held back.

Ha! I was just trying to copy and paste a bit from that document, but my phone wouldn't let me!!

I tried to do it from my phone whilst sat outside school but gave up and did it when I got home. I hate reading about children in pre-schools or nursery's being discriminated against just because they are in a nappy. My children 20 and 16 had to be dry before they went to pre-school but didn't go until they were 4 anyway. With the lowering of the age we have to take the consequences and deal with it. It's no skin off their noses to change a nappy and support toilet training when she is ready. I run a pre-school in a village hall which takes children from 2 and we are willing and able to have children in nappies and change them when needed. Ooooh it gets me so angry.

Thanks ladies- this looks like exactly what I need, the link won't open for me here, but when I am home I will google until i get to this.
I really am trying to get her dry asap, but really feel aggrieved they can effectively leave her in limbo and thus delay her development. I have been so upset by this but am nervy of rocking the boat a)she spends so much time in their care and b)to date I have always been really pleased with their decisions/general running of things and c)until this week, little one was happy...
I will google later and come back to this thank-you..

tapdancing thank-you, I would be less upset by this had they not told me beforehand that this would be supported. The facilities there are excellent, built for purpose and always a good staff to child ratio... I am pleased to hear your business does support this, I am so torn what to do with DD now-she was stressed out at nursery today when I collected her because they'd been repeatedly leaving her in just knickers which of course had repeatedly disastrous results..... She is becoming bored and fed up there and I am powerless.

Has anybody successfully presented this legislation citing discrimination in a pre school setting?

Hi I'm a nursery teacher in a school nursery. They can't stop her moving up (presuming you are in the UK) They can suggest that they would support you with toilet training but they have to let her go with her age group. If she is still not potty trained in reception (I'm sure she will be but just incase!) then she is still entitiled to start school. Primary schools have to have an intimate care plan in place for such children. I'm shocked that they are keeping her back- It isn't unusual for 3+ children in pre-school/school nursery to not be potty trained yet!

katyb we are in the UK, in London. I had lengthy conversations there on Friday and the attitude seems to be that because they are a private operation they can make their own rules in this regard.

I have a further meeting booked for Tuesday morning to discuss further but am not overly hopeful.... it's all very stressful and in the meantime, DD could not be less interested in potty training if she tried.

It's the Equalities Act 2010 that you need to be pushing- I just had a quick google and the advice for schools has a section for independent schools. It should def apply to them!

katyb thanks, but I have googled this document forwards and backwards, there does not appear to be a single paragraph where schools are told that they cannot refuse admissions....

Am I missing a chunk on google? I have obsessively read this document bit not come across any independent schools guidance? Do you have a link please? (I am void of sleep this last week so please excuse me if this is staring me in the face!)