I wish it was easier to talk about terminations (apologies if upsetting)

[Thurlow]

It feels like it is one of the great taboos and I don't dare talk about it IRL.

It's playing on my mind as I had a termination just under a year ago, so newborn babies are a bit of a touchy spot at the moment.

I am comfortable that we made the right decision but as a 30-something mum in a long term relationship, I know it is not a common choice nor it is one that many people might even understand or approve of.

But knowing it was the right decision doesn't mean I have completely forgotten about it or that I don't ever want to talk about it. I had the counseling that was offered, I am fine with my choice - but it's still there.

But I feel like I can't talk about. Sadly, many of my friends are going through problems TTCing right now, including some very, very tragic experiences. I know the most inappropriate thing I could ever say to them would be to tell them I terminated a potentially healthy baby.

99.9% of the time it is no problem but every now and again, people ask me when we might think about having another DC, or I feel I am in a conversation where I am essentially lying and dancing around the subject. I nearly mentioned it completely by accident to a very good friend the other day, a friend who would probably be very upset if she heard about it.

Why does it feel like such an awful taboo? Selfishly, why do I feel like I have to keep this secret from people? I feel like even those who wouldn't be personally hurt by the decision would probably be 'disappointed' that I made that decision, or perhaps think less of me.

It's even taken me a while to be open about this under my usual username. How bad is that?

I might be sensitive about this at the moment, but sometimes it feels as though "you made that decision, you live with it".

Is it just me? Does anyone else understand?

(Sorry this is a bit waffly...)

Furthermore, (ranting now) MN carefully watch long threads discussing the legality of abortion and are quick to delete inflammatory anti-abortion, guilt-tripping posts! So it feels like MN's message is "we of course defend any woman's right to an abortion (a legal medical procedure) but we'd rather if you had one you you kept it to yourself please."

Yes I know I'm being a bit OTT. But personally this feels like MN just don't want to deal with any negative publicity that might result from "condoning" abortions.

Catching up with this thread now. So sorry for anyone who feels they have to keep these things to themself. I don't regret mine for a second, they were the right thing to do, but it would be nice to talk to other people sometimes.

Personally I think the best place for discussing termination would be within the 'Body and Soul' section, which already houses 'miscarriage/pregnancy loss' and 'bereavement'. Of course, not everyone who wants to talk about termination will have one so it's not the same as 'pregnancy loss'. But at least it's separate from Conception.

I feel that at the moment, if there can be no special area and threads must be self-moderated, the best thing we could have is a strong community of women together on a thread who will be able to protect discussions from interjections and derailing attempts.

Half the time the problem is that the poor OP of a termination thread is floating around in Antenatal Test and Choices, getting a lot of unsupportive chat, and those of us who could support her are isolated by the fact that - er - we can't talk about this because there's no safe area, so no individual posts because they worry they'll get into a fight or get flamed.

I agree, Adam
I feel so upset when some poor woman posts for advice on a termination and people post "congratulations!!!" "It'll all work out and you'll have a lovely Baby!" I just don't think it's the right kind of support.
So maybe MN isn't the place for this. Who knows. I'm still angry about that email from MNHQ.

lth

CatKisser, that has summed it up exactly. we of course defend any woman's right to an abortion (a legal medical procedure) but we'd rather if you had one you you kept it to yourself please exactly, and far more succinctly, sums up what that response made me feel.

There has to be a compromise somewhere. Discussing terminating a healthy pregnancy, especially a woman who wants to terminate for reasons (financial, hating pregnancy etc) that to other women are easily surmountable, is incredibly insensitive on boards that deal predominantly with issues around conception and health problems in pregnancy.

I skimmed through some old threads on termination this afternoon and they were hugely depressing. There feels like a background opinion that the majority of women who are already mothers should find a way to make another pregnancy and child work, unless them are some serious health issues involved. There was also a strong opinion along the lines of FFS, sort your contraception out, it's your fault you got into this situation. Whereas I significant majority of women will fall pregnant whilst using contraception (I have 3 times). Again, while I appreciate I might be sensitive on this particularly issue, there is nowhere on the pregnancy, conception, ante-natal boards where I would feel comfortable discussing the problem that my OH and I seem to be very compatible and fall pregnant easily. Because to so many women that's the absolute opposite of a problem; it's not when you've had unplanned pregnancies and a termination because of it.

MN: by parents, for parents.

As long as you want to stay a parent.

I think the only way to see if there would be a problem is to try it. If it gets overrun with trolls then nobody else will use it and it can be shut down.

It sort of stinks of letting them win if we refuse to even discuss terminations because there is a possibility somebody might come on the thread and say something unpleasant. I always thought mn had a bit more backbone then to be scared off a subject so easily!

Sorry, can't seem to wrap it up in one post.

I have a sneaky feeling that MN feel there is not much need for a termination topic because there is not that much discussion of termination. Whereas it's probably a vicious circle. There's not much discussion of termination because a significant number of posters are pro-choice but anti the reality of termination. It means it's not a place people feel comfortable talking about it, which means that it's not a natural place for people to come and talk about it.

And again, because I don't think I can stress this enough, it's not answering the need for support post-termination.

If it was tucked away in Body and Soul then it might remain largely under the troll radar anyway.

Judging by this thread it doesn't seem that MN is, as the response says, 'managing to support women who have had abortions'.

There are tons of topics floating about with hardly any posts in so I don't think that is the real reason. I suspect it is that they are not sure how they feel about the subject and worry that if they have a topic on termination it will place them in the pro-choice camp.

Just to add my voice of support
Totally agree with Cat and Thurlow
The person I mentioned on page one of this thread would really benefit , as would so many others, A nice safe place to discuss their feelings.

It does seem a little bit like that, HearMyRoar.

And if it is that, fine (I suppose) - but I'd rather MN were open about it.

I don't think I've ever come across a thread containing this much genuine discussion of termination which has not been trolled/goaded. And I would guess that that is because:

1. Thurlow had the balls to post it in Chat rather than Ante-Natal Thingummies
2. It swiftly achieved the critical mass of reasonable posters which is required to resist goading and keep the thread on track
3. The OP is not 'I am thinking about having a termination', which brings out the Judgement Squad

Without these things it wouldn't have made it. And that just goes to show that the need is there but the system's letting it down.

Absolutely, adam

I did think this thread would just die off and no one would understand what I was on about. I'm so glad it hasn't.

I agree thurlow. I can sort of understand why they might want to remain neutral on the subject but I'm not sure it's something that they can just ignore (and personally I don't think they should ignore it).

On a personal note I have had as lot of support on mn for lots of very personal things, tcc problems, miscarriage, depression, health issues. All things I have felt unable to be open with people in RL about but have really needed the support mn can offer. I makes me sad to realise that if I became pregnant now I would find it hard to seek similar support on mn in discussing the reasons why I might not want to have another child.

Good post adam. There is definitely a need for a topic. There are clearly a lot of us who would like to discuss terminations freely, and for every one person present on this thread there are probably at least four or five lurkers who don't feel brave enough to post but are feeling supported just by reading.

Mumsnet is a wonderful, inclusive forum, but I've never felt so isolated as I did when I was looking for support regarding abortion.

I for one would like to thank Thurlow for having the courage to start the thread. It might not be the safe space we all wish for but it has given so many of us a chance to share our stories and realise we're not alone.

YY, HearMyRoar. I have been on MN quite a few years now, since I fell pg with DD and moved further away from my friends and support network. I have used it as an incredible sounding board for help, advice and friendship when I have felt quite isolated.

But when I fell accidentally pg last year I not only felt the need to nc before posting, I didn't get much visible support and I felt quite hurt about that. It felt as though I had crossed some sort of MN line. I did get a lot of PMs which were incredibly supportive and kind - but that's a hidden kindness.

A rather surprising experience, overall

I'm so glad that people are finding this supportive. I'll admit I was feeling selfish when I started it rather than 'courageous' () but I'm so happy that other posters have been able to come on here and share and start talking about their experiences. I wasn't thinking about a separate board at first. Now it seems clear there are those of us who definitely want somewhere to talk and to support women positively.

Yes! I found the thread I mentioned earlier - it's a good one.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/1223342-to-have-had-an-abortion-and-feel-ZERO-shame-or-regret

Ps please read beyond the first few posts (or skip them if you don't feel up to it) because they accuse GOML of "boasting" (FFS) but I think most posters got what she meant and shared some similar stories.

Adding my voice in support of a dedicated area (and in thanks to Thurlow).

I've been a member of MN for 9 years and a lurker for a year before that. I've used almost every sub forum in that time at least once for help, support, guidance and entertainment (except for the gardening one - shudder). MN has been there for me for all those years except on this one issue, the hardest and most emotional.

I would love to see supportive threads that aren't derailed by nastiness or political/religious bandstanding and that actually listen to what the woman in pain/distress/worry is saying and supporting her through the decision making process without judgement.

I have found that the antenatal tests threads are dominated by people saying that the result wouldn't change their outcome and they would have and love their baby regardless of disability. In my current situation this is not helpful - the implication is that anyone who chooses to end their pregnancy due to severe disabilities in their baby doesn't love their child. There is no support for women going through an abortion of a much wanted and planned baby.

I wish I could have found a thread like this 3 years ago. At the time I felt posting in ante natal choices was just the wrong place. I would have really appreciated a thread where I could talk things through as I felt very sad for a long time afterwards.

Like many others I already have 2 dc's and have had multiple mc's. I had a termination as I just could not face another baby/toddler. It's been so hard with both my dd's and the lack of sleep plus working.

I was devastated to end a healthy pregnancy but it was the best thing for my family as a whole.

Thanks for this thread. I hope MN will re think and realise there's a need for somewhere for this kind of discussion.

I didn't know that, LabMonkey.