I wish it was easier to talk about terminations (apologies if upsetting)

[Thurlow]

It feels like it is one of the great taboos and I don't dare talk about it IRL.

It's playing on my mind as I had a termination just under a year ago, so newborn babies are a bit of a touchy spot at the moment.

I am comfortable that we made the right decision but as a 30-something mum in a long term relationship, I know it is not a common choice nor it is one that many people might even understand or approve of.

But knowing it was the right decision doesn't mean I have completely forgotten about it or that I don't ever want to talk about it. I had the counseling that was offered, I am fine with my choice - but it's still there.

But I feel like I can't talk about. Sadly, many of my friends are going through problems TTCing right now, including some very, very tragic experiences. I know the most inappropriate thing I could ever say to them would be to tell them I terminated a potentially healthy baby.

99.9% of the time it is no problem but every now and again, people ask me when we might think about having another DC, or I feel I am in a conversation where I am essentially lying and dancing around the subject. I nearly mentioned it completely by accident to a very good friend the other day, a friend who would probably be very upset if she heard about it.

Why does it feel like such an awful taboo? Selfishly, why do I feel like I have to keep this secret from people? I feel like even those who wouldn't be personally hurt by the decision would probably be 'disappointed' that I made that decision, or perhaps think less of me.

It's even taken me a while to be open about this under my usual username. How bad is that?

I might be sensitive about this at the moment, but sometimes it feels as though "you made that decision, you live with it".

Is it just me? Does anyone else understand?

(Sorry this is a bit waffly...)

Labmonkey, I'm sorry, it sounds as though you are going through something very difficult. You can talk about it here if you need to

I hear you lab.

It's something that terrifies me, because I would consider terminating if the foetus had a serious disability, despite the fact that I want a child. But it would be very difficult to talk about this IRL, especially as DH's parents are Catholic. And I would not post about it here, because I wouldn't feel safe.

Not here as in this thread, I should say. Here as in 'MN at large'

I just wanted to add one more thing in support of a dedicated topic. I think that there are very different issues for people who are parents thinking about abortion then the people that tend to be the focus of public discussion on the subject.

I had my abortion when I was 18, lived in shared accommodation, in a low paid job, with a flaky boyfriend. Unless you are out right anti abortion most people can accept why I had a termination.

If I got pregnant now I would very much consider and probably have a termination. I have one child and from the outside I just don't think people would understand why I would even consider not keeping a second.

It is clear from this thread that there is a hidden group of people on mn who find themselves in this situation and MN is absolutely the right place for discussing these issues.

Thanks - our decision is made and I'm part way through the process. I don't think I'll ever stop crying. Thankfully my DD (3) is oblivious so keeping us going.

I have discovered that most information is for miscarriage or early termination, nothing about 2nd trimester. At least at 16 weeks we will be able to say goodbye.

I'm so sorry, lab x

Oh Lab

*splendide" you have described one of my pet hates! strangers telling posters who think they can't cope financially/emotionally whatever that it'll "just work out" you can "just cut back", it'll be fine once it's here - some people have nothing left to cut back on, those threads always go that way - oh you just make it work, really? what about ALL the many families in the UK in poverty, why isn't it "just working" for them?

I just wanted to clarify that I feel strongly that there should be more support for all women who need to end their pregnancies regardless of the reason.

One of the greatest factors in my decision was the quality of life my daughter would have if I continued and, as mentioned by PP, there are many factors which impact that - finances, family circumstances - it shouldn't only be linked to health.

I'm so sorry you've found yourself in the situation of having to make such a difficult decision Lab. Please keep talking if you feel you want to, we will listen.

Thank you all - it's been nearly 3 weeks of tests and waiting for results so today I thought I'd thought of everything that might happen and was prepared. I found out today when I went to see the midwife to do the paperwork, take the meds etc that I will have the option to see my daughter after she's born. I think because everything online assumes early termination this didn't occur to me. We also have to decide what will happen to her body.

She already has a name and DH and I are going to buy her a toy bunny (same as her big sister's) for her so that she won't be alone. I'm going to make bunny a scarf from part of my childhood comforter so that she'll have part of me next to her forever. I am a Christian and may ask our vicar to bless her, or I may just do it myself. I know many will disagree but I believe that God is waiting for her and this way I know she won't have to experience how cruel people can be.

The hardest thing is not being honest with people, most people are just assuming miscarriage.

I can't imagine how difficult it must be for you and your DH Lab. I'm so glad you're able to find some comfort in your faith, I hope that continues in the coming days, weeks and months.

Was your midwife able to point you towards any sources of support? You might find www.arc-uk.org helpful if you don't know of them already.

I can understand not correcting people who assume you're going through a miscarriage. You can always tell them at a later date if you feel you want to, but for now just do what you have to do to and be kind to yourself.

I'm off to bed now, but know I'll be thinking of you.

I wish someone had told me about the procedure more. They said I might get period like cramps. There was no mention I would have contractions that codeine didn't control, or that I would gush blood, or that I would have an urge to push, or pass out on the floor. I did it all alone and I was really frightened so I ended up crying on the phone to the helpline. The minute it was all over my only thought was "take it back. What have I done?"

It's not just about breaking the guidelines though, it's about being an inconsiderate arse, and flying just beneath the radar.

Those who want to will condemn, criticise & judge carefully enough so not to be classed as a personal attack, but those on the receiving end know that it bloody well is.

We can have 'off the beaten' we can have an exclusive SN topic, we can have a bloody Christmas topic, but we can't have this...

While I don't think that is what HQ mean, the response smacks slightly of "it's just too difficult a topic and we don't quite know what our opinion is so we don't want to encourage people to talk about it too much." If anything, to me it actually just reinforces the idea that termination is a bit of a taboo and shouldn't be discussed openly. Exactly.

A termination thread in antenatal tests/choices attracted ONE....yes, ONE response. I didn't even know it existed for years!

I think if MNHQ started it with a note that, on the thread, anti-choice posts would be deleted, then they could moderate it to a different standard.

I've been thinking about this overnight (yes, yes, I know)

And the more I think about it, the more I am genuinely shocked at MN's response: we understand that there is a great need for safe places where women can talk about their experiences. However, we're afraid that we don't think Mumsnet is able to be this place.

I really hope that is bad wording, otherwise - really? MN can be a place where non-professionals can try and support people in mental health crisis, but it can't be a place where non-professionals support each other through terminations?

As catkissers says above, if that is the case then I too am seriously questioning whether MN is the fully supportive place it claims to be and that I thought it was.

Also, while a long-running thread is a compromise, I really don't think the emergency nature of people's need for help suits that kind of thread. It's not like HG, another example of long-running support threads, as it's probably not something people are dealing with on such a similar day-by-day basis. I really don't think termination suits a long-running thread at all, and it is perfectly clear that it doesn't suit well in ante-natal choices at all.

Have had an email from HQ saying they are going to talk about it again today. I'd say if anyone has any strong opinions, add it to the thread and report it, or email HQ.

LabMonkey,

I don't know if it helps at all but I know other people who have made the same decision you have, and I would have made the same decision. It sounds like MN has made you feel alone. I promise you you are not. And I hope we can make MN somewhere that reflects that. Please keep talking to us. I love the sound of the scarf you are making, how beautiful.

Last point (promise ) - I also think it is very clear at the moment that no one knows where to find support of termination. We need to think about how that works, for new people looking to find support, if it is one long-running thread that is tucked away on page 2, or in Body & Soul (I wouldn't think to go there, personally)

Thurlow, FWR does attract trolls, but those rarely call other posters the sorts of names that anti-choicers can come out with for a woman who is going through the experience right then.

If it was a long running thread somewhere, an individual woman might feel less attacked by such a thing?

good, I'm so sorry that happened to you

They told me the same thing ('period like cramps') about my first MC (11 weeks). I chose to have it naturally because everything I read about it was so vague and undertstated. It was the worst pain I have ever experienced. I went through the first stage of labour (at home, on my own, completely unmedicated, because the pain made me throw up any pills I tried to take) but I had to work that out for myself months later. I ended up hospitalised for blood loss.

I don't understand why the advice is so bloody useless.

Yet another reason that being able to consult other people over their experiences would be invaluable in making a choice about which procedure to have.

I suppose the relevant part of what happened to me is that months afterwards, when I read a thread in 'Miscarriage/Pregnancy loss' by someone asking how she should prepare for miscarrying at home, I was able to post to say that she'd need strong painkillers, maxi pads, time to recover and someone with her who was able to drive her to hospital if she felt she needed it. I also flagged up in a low-key (non-terrifying) way that peoples' experiences differ hugely and that if at any point she felt frightened or there was a lot of pain/blood loss she shouldn't hesitate to go to A and E.

That was possible because she was able to post that thread, in an area where it was found and responded to by people with experience of what she was going through.

And that kind of advice is invaluable Adam. 4 years ago when I was in that situation I was lucky enough to be able to confide in a couple of people in RL and was strongly advised to not go for the option of miscarrying at home but go for GA. For those who have already had to make a difficult, painful decision, having to go through a physical ordeal as well feels like a lot of punishment, for want of a better word. Even the very nice healthcare professionals I spoke to on the day queried my request for GA. If I hadn't had that advice before I might have wavered from my choice and it was definitely the right one. Hope that all makes sense.

Personally I think the best place for discussing termination would be within the 'Body and Soul' section, which already houses 'miscarriage/pregnancy loss' and 'bereavement'.

But but but....

Then you get those who will say that it is insensitive to discuss it there, because a termination is a CHOICE and miscarriage/pregnancy loss isn't!

I saw an op shouted down because she started a thread about this very thing 'where she shouldn't have' (according to them MN collective) and she didn't come back & the thread was pulled.

We can't win...we just cannot win, where ever we go, which is why we need our own place.

WinifredTheLostDenver that thread is horrible. I was told (by a poster claiming to be a midwife, no less) that she wouldn't want me babysitter her children, all I did was post in favour of terminations. I don't suggest anyone reads it for a balanced view!

This thread has made me signup this morning.

I was 16 when I had mine, entirely my choice and went through it without any family knowing about it. Nearly 30 years down the line, I still have days where I doubt myself whilst also being absolutely sure that I did the right thing for me back then. Very few people know in RL, I'm not even sure if I've ever told my DP of 17 years about it.

I'm not ashamed of what I did but think that people wouldn't understand and would judge me.

Thurlow thank you for giving me a place to finally be able to start to articulate my feelings about it.

Sorry, different (and anyone else). Maybe it was a bad thread to link.

I think the majority of posters on it thought that the OP was right to post her thread and others agreed that they'd had an abortion without it being the most traumatic thing ever, as opposed to it being somehow expected that abortion would wrack you with guilt for life.

But there were certainly some nasty posts. Which I guess is what MNHQ were concerned about. When GOML posted, it was all well in the past for her, so the nasty posts probably affected her a bit less than had she been in the middle of the decision.