Panicking about ventouse/forceps

[skimmer]

Hi,I'm new to mumsnet and have already found it really useful, but this is my first time on here. I'm due to give birth for the first time in a few weeks and I'm terrified by the whole natural birth thing but particularly scared of the idea of having the baby wrenched out by forceps or ventouse - both for my sake and my baby's sake. I may have been talking to the wrong people (none of them had actually had either forceps or ventouse) but I've heard all sorts of terrible stories about mr whippy ice cream heads, babies being badly bruised (or worse still brain damaged) and also implications for the mother - episiotomy, legs up in stirrups etc. When would they decide to use forceps or ventouse? Has anyone here had it? Is it as bad as they say? Why one and not the other (or do they use both) Is there anything you can do to avoid it (can you opt for a cesarean at that point instead)? Am I being a total wuss????I don't have that many close friends with babies and the people I do know just seem to enjoy giving me one horror story after another. Any helpful information or reassurance welcome!!
Thanks

Hi Skimmer, I'm relativley new here too, it's good isn't it!!
Anyway the forceps/ventouse thing really worried me when I was PG our first son. I'm not entirley sure why now, probably for the same reason you've listed but when it came down to the crunch and the midwife or Doctor said 'we need to get this baby out' I couldn't have cared less how they got him out as I'd been in labour for hours. I actually thought they were going to do a c-section and was quite relieved.
Anyway they used a ventouse as the cord was around his neck and under his arm (so he was head/arm and nearly shoulder at at once) and it was affecting his heart rate so they pulled while I pushed, it was all over in a couple of pushes/pulls and all he had was a bit of a squashy purple bruise, which sounds soooooo much worse than it was, for a few days.
As far as I know they would rather not use either and let mum do the work so don't get yourself worked up over it as the chances are you may not even have to use them. Enjoy your last few weeks being pregnant and let us know how it all goes.
Good Luck

I ended up with legs in stirrups .... but not forceps or ventouse. A friend who had ventouse had been pushing for hours, her epidural had numbed her so she couldn't feel herself pushing, and they were wheeling her into theatre for a C-section. It was kind of like, let's give this one last shot, before we have to cut, shall we? Baby was big, too (nearly 10 lb).

I imagine if she hadn't had the epi, if she had managed to adopt a kneeling or standing birthing position, the ventouse wouldn't have been necessary.

The baby refused to breastfed; I think cranial osteopathy is supposed to be a big help with ventouse/forceps babies.

I really don't think you should prefer a C-section; it carries a death risk for the mother, forceps are safer, honest!

Incidentally, friend's 2nd labour was a breeze; they barely got to the hospital in time.

EmmaTMG - your experience sounds like mine! Everything that could go wrong did, and ds seemed to want to stay 'up there'.

Skimmer - don't worry. I did not want anything except gas/air and the TENS machine. (Am allergic to Pethedine, and I was very anti epidurals). Anyway, to cut a long story short, I had to have everything except a c-section, and that very nearly happened. However, the epidural was great, as I did not feel any pain, and, even though I had ventouse, forceps and an episiotomy, it was not a bad experience. I did not even have any pain killers whilst in hospital, as everything was bearable.

Ultimately, you will want the baby out, and will take the advice of the doctor/mid-wives as to what is needed. They will make sure that as little as possible is done to you and your baby. It is natural to feel worried about birth, but it is 'soon' over, and you have a wonderful baby as a result. I can guarantee that you will gloss over the pain of the birth as soon as you have the baby. I find now that it is my dh who remembers all the horrible bits! I just say 'Oh it wasn't that bad...'

PLUS, I think people who try and scare new mums before the birth of their baby should be taken out and shot at dawn!

Another newbie!
My ds is 1 (tomorrow) so I've been thinking a lot about my labour today. I was induced at 39 weeks (I have diabetes), & ended up having both ventouse & forceps to get him out. After 26 hours in labour I didn't care what they did as long as he came out safely. He did have a bit of a swelling on the back of his head for 24 hours, & a scab which dropped off after about a week, but other than that he was absolutely fine. It did mean we had to stay in hospital for an extra night though. And yes, episiotomy & stirrups - in fact, when I write it all down it sounds traumatic but I was so thrilled to have a purple squirmy baby on my tummy that I just forgot about the nasty bits. Hope this hasn't all been too offputting!

Hi Skimmer.

I had a ventouse delivery and it really wasn't that bad. As Emma said, by that stage I just wanted them to get the baby out safely and no longer cared how they did it. The episiotomy didn't hurt at the time, and I was lucky it healed well. The stirrups weren't too bad, and I was only in them for a short time. It's not like you're confined in that position for hours.

I started a thread on here some time ago called something like "childbirth was NOT as bad as I expected". I don't know if it'd be a good idea for you to read it or not, if it's still around because it all got a bit controversial with some people agreeing that things weren't as bad as they feared, and other saying they'd had really traumatic experiences - which wouldn't reassure you at all. In the end, I had to admit that I had had some complications, including the ventouse, and it had been fairly awful in some ways. But, I stand by what I said - the level of pain was not the unbearable agony I'd feared. I'm a real coward and would have gone for an epidural if I felt I needed it, but I managed with etonox (sp?) gas. Also, although it lasted several hours, the time did seem to go by fairly quickly.

Don't panic! There are some genuine horror stories, but it's not inevitable that it will be horrific. And, of course, it's a real cliche - but it really is worth it. Good luck.

I didn't enjoy my birth experience at all, and I'll spare you the gruesome details

However, one thing I don't regret is the ventouse delivery (I'd specified in my notes that I preferred ventouse over forceps in the event some sort of intervention was required). By that point in the labour I was completely exhausted and I just wanted "it" out. It was all over very quickly (well, at least in retrospect, lol) and I do think I'd probably have ended up having a caesarian otherwise.

DS1 was forceps,stirrups episiotomy etc. Have to agree with everyone that at that point you really couldnt care less about what they are going to do because at least they are getting the baby out and the end is in sight. Dont stress about it beforehand, cant have been that bad as I had 2 more! DS had a bruised, elongated head and I blamed his poor sleeping on the forceps and tried cranial osteopathy but ds2 and dd turned out to be just as bad and had normal deliveries so its just the way I make them!
My attitude before labour was "it cant go on forever" and it doesnt!-Youll be fine-gas and air is great! best of luck anyway

I had ventouse too at 36 weeks with no 1 who decided he wanted to put in an early appearance. I had an epidural early on because it was recommended (though I don't know why). I was therefore flat on my back and had no feeling whatsoever and had to be told when I was having a contraction so I never had the urge to push properly. DS was also in a posterior (back to back) position so the wrong part of his head was presenting. When I made no progress in the second stage I was taken into the assisted labour room, put in stirrups and given an episiotomy for ventouse which worked very well. Rather undignified but you don't care at that point. I had 2 midwives, 2 paeds, a doctor, a teacher and several students all looking on!

I didn't feel a thing due to the epidural being so strong, DS had a slightly pointy head for a day or so and was a bit bruised for a while. He ended up in special care with a chest infection but this probably wasn't linked with his delivery. He didn't seem to suffer any problems and always slept well as a tiny baby. I got a slight infection from my scar and I'm not quite the same down there as I was before but it hasn't caused major problems.

DS2 was delivered by emergency section due to placenta praevia but DD arrived quite naturally with no pain relief and no intervention whatsoever.

Hi Skimmer,

I too had a ventouse which saved me from having to have a c-section. I had an epidural so didn't feel a thing and afterwards I hardly felt any discomfort from the stitches. It does sound really horrible but, honestly, it's not that bad!

Hope the rest of your pregnancy goes well.

Hi Skimmer,

Please do not worry unduly about ventouse/forceps. As everyone here has said, at that point in the proceedings, you do not care what happens as long as the baby is delivered.
As a midwife, I can reassure you that the decision is taken only if there is a need for your own efforts to be aided. Sometimes it is because the baby is not tolerating the pushing stage well. Sometimes it is because the baby is not advancing very well when pushing. If the baby's heartbeat is OK then you will be able to continue trying yourself. I have had women asking for assistance from the doctor because they don't have the energy to keep going. Ventouse/forceps will only be done if that is deemed to possible. If the baby has not descended far enough then a C/S will be the safest option. Vaginal delivery is the safest if that is possible. Try not to think of the baby as being 'wrenched out'. Ventouse/forceps just guide the baby out assisted by your own pushing when progress is slow.
To try and avoid an assisted delivery you should remain as mobile as possible during your labour and avoid an epidural. Even doing that though does not mean you definately won't need help as janeway's experience shows. However, 70% of all births are straightforward so just try and think positively. Let your midwife know of your concerns, I am sure she will be able to allay your fears. HTH.

I had foceps delivery on ds, he was 6 weeks prem, and following induction and epidual he got stuck and so were advised for forceps delivery before he got distressed. Could not have ventouse as told this was not suitable for a baby at 34weeks.
Felt nothing due to epidural.
Had episiotomy and stitches but have had no problems since, and dd was a home water birth 20 months later.

Only downside was having a cathater in which was not removed till next day, and being unable to walk till epidural wore off it meant I could not go to see my ds in special care until the following day - they were worried about risk of spreading infection. However, the special care was not connected with the forceps delivery but more due to him being early.

ks - did not know forceps deliveries had higher chance of jaundice, ds had jaundice for 10 days after birth and spent hours under the lamps also...

hope this helps, good luck with the birth.

You are quite right ks, good point. When babies are born they have a high haemoglobin (Hb) which was needed in the womb to transport oxygen. When they are born they no lomger need such a high Hb so it is broken down. Unfortunately the liver is not mature enough to cope with the broken down components of Hb which results in high bilirubin levels which cause jaundice. Bruising also results in further breakdown of red blood cells therefore leading to higher jaundice levels due to excess bilirubin. As the liver matures after birth, the bilirubin is excreted. Phototherapy helps break down the bilirubin into substances that are easily excreted. Not all babies delivered by ventouse/forceps need phototheray but it is an increased risk. Babies delivered 'normally' or by C/S also sometimes need phototherapy. The main thing is to be aware that it is a possibility and that the baby may be sleepy until the jaundice resolves. This means feeding may be difficult in the first few days but it will get better as the baby becomes more awake.

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Hi Skimmer, agree with what Robinw has written here. I had an epidural and because it was so good and effective I couldn't really push that well so ended up with a Ventouse. It really wasn't that bad, but I know I had the epidural which obviously helped.
I do think it's a shame when some people you talk to when you are expecting your first baby just love to tell about their "horror" stories. Don't think of it as "wrenching the baby out" if assistance is required either by forceps or ventouse then it's for your own safety and that of your precious baby.
Wishing you all the best for a straightforward and not too stressful delivery.

Hi Skimmer, just to throw in something extra - I'm a BIG advocate of epidurals, having had the most fantastic experience of one the first time round and in my case it didn't slow things down or stop me pushing - DD came out in 20 minutes flat, once the midwife told me to start, despite the fact I couldn't feel a thing and had to imagine where my muscles were. So if you feel like having an epi, don't assume it will lead to baby getting stuck - seems to me it's mainly luck of the draw. Really good luck anyway.

I had a serene, painless planned C-section but still had forceps though, as ds was tucked diagonally into my pelvis and didn't want to come out! All was wonderful and fine and dandy, even if he did get a bit of a poke in the eye and peered at me with one eye shut for a couple of days, there was no lasting damage and he looked fantastically beautiful to me. Hell, he WAS fantastically beautiful! I think you can discount scary talk of death risks/brain damage etc etc. Unless you are like me and knew you were having a section from the first scan, then birth, it seems, is very rarely as you plan/imagine but you'll come out the other side with a lovely baby.

I have only skimmed through the other posts on here so apologies if I'm just repeating everyone else...

I believe that the more intervention that you have in labour, the more you are likely to require an assisted delivery. So, if they do suggest a procedure to you, I would really query if it is necessary. Easier said than done when you are in labour, as you are very vunerable. So get something down on your birth plan about it and discuss it with your birth partner in advance. Try and remain active for as long as possible - avoid continuous fetal monitoring if you can at all help it. Having an epidural makes it more likely you'll need an assisted delivery, but you might decide the benefits outweigh the risks.

Having said all that, don't panic too much about it. I gave birth to ds1 with the aid of a ventouse, and there wasn't a mark on him. He also had a very high Apgar score - after nearly 3 hours of pushing. I think a ventouse is preferable to forceps - I remember the consultant wanted to use the latter, but the midwife talked him out of it.

Something else I just thought of. You say you are due to give birth soon. Are you aware of the theories on how to get your baby into the best position for labour? If your baby is in an posterior(his back up against your back)position you're more likely to need help delivering him.

To encourage him to get into an anterior position, basically, you need to adopt forward leaning postures. That is, if your watching telly, instead of slouching in an armchair with your feet up, lean forward over some cushions or one of those birthing balls. My midwife reckoned you didn't get posterior births in the olden days because pregnant women were down on all fours scrubbing the kitchen floor until they went into labour.

I could have kissed the doctor when he came in with the forceps and said 'lets get this baby out'.He was OP,and huge and my second stage was 6 hours.Ive had 2 forceps now and they were both fine,ds just had a little bruise on the side of his face for a couple of days.It happened so quickly too as you are pushing at the same time,well I was.

I too had epi, ventouse, foreceps and episotbla bla bla! and like all the other girlies have said by the end of it, you really don't care how the blighter comes out - "JUST GET THE BABY OUT"! Saying that DS did have a mis shapen head for a few months and was under photo-theorpy for 7 days and I wasn't realised either for another reason which will stay under wraps for now, but as for the stitches I would like to kiss the surgeon for the job they did - my sex life improved dramatically causing DD to be concieved 3 months later!!!! You will really not mind how your bundle of joy comes out when the crunch comes!!!
All the best, and let us know how it goes xx

realised is meant to be released! oops!

Skimmer - its true what everyone says - I think you go into a sort of "other state of being" when in labour. Well that was my experience anyway. You are solely concentrated on delivering the baby.

I had the stirrups and epiostomy etc but managed to deliver DS without assistance and he was 9lb 10oz. So it is possible. OK I do realise I was lucky. Try and be prepared and then when the time comes just go for it with what feels best for you.

I had a ventouse delivery and actually kept putting off the doctors and midwives suggestions of using ventouse as I was anti intervention, but I wish I hadn't really. I may not have needed ventouse if I hadn't had an epidural, so it's true what they teach you in antenatal classes about epidurals leading to a chain of intervention, however, I got stuck in very late stage 1 of labour as my baby was sideways on and was only pressing on one side of the cervix (so I was fully dilated one side and not the other - stuck at 8cm for several hours) so I eventually had an epidural and it was absolute bliss, I tell you, so I'm now very FOR epidurals. Obviously I didn't feel anything for the ventouse because of the epidural, so it wasn't painful but a bit undignified with the stirrups. I pushed for 2.5 hours unsuccessfully, so should have agreed to the ventouse earlier as that worked v. quickly - was warned I would probably have an episiotomy but for some reason I didn't and had a second degree tear instead! So lots of stiches, BUT I took arnica and had no bruising so was actually less sore afterwards than others who had a natural birth and no tearing but were very bruised. I would definately say not to worry therefore about ventouse/episiotomy as you probably won't need it anyway - it's only used when necessary (I'm just echoing what everyone else is saying really aren't I). Best of luck, hope it all goes really well.