DS (4) just won't stop wetting and pooing himself

[ASecretLemonadeDrinker]

I was pretty relaxed about starting potty training but then just stopped with nappies just before he was 4. He understands going to the loo, takes himself off and says he needs to go etc. but sometimes he just can't be bothered. Everyday this week I have had to clean up poo from his playroom and he just laughs. I have tried bribes, lots and lots of praise when he does go but it's getting beyond joke. Yeserday he had pooed and covered most his toys, the playroom sofa, boxes, the walls and just laughed and said it was mud. He knows it's naughty, it's not because he doesn't. If I put him in pants and trousers, he will just wet and poo himself despite me asking, bribing him etc. to go. He poos in nearly every bath, even if I say he can't have one until he goes and has just been. I have locked the playroom now because it been pooed in again and I can't get down to clean it up. I just don't know what to do.

If you are sure there is no underlying emotional or physical cause for this behaviour, I would let him know in a cross voice that you are not pleased and will be changing what happens when he keeps on wetting and soiling.

Take some toys from the playroom, and lock it again, making it out of bounds. Say that when he goes to the toilet successfully (and you need to inspect what he has done) he can choose another toy from the playroom. If he wets/soils, a toy is put back in the playroom from the ones he has out already. I would also get him to change himself and rinse through by hand the soiled clothes, and wipe the floor/sponge the carpet. This is time consuming, but he needs to know how much work he is making for you, and while he does it, will probably miss a favourite t.v. prog or something.... Hopefully he will realise you mean what you say and going to the loo will seem like the easy option! When he has been clean and dry for a week, say, he gets the run of the playroom again, and an extra new toy. Regressing after this and the new toy gets put away until he uses the toilet again.

I would stop giving baths until he can show you he's used the toilet properly, and give all over washes instead, he can do this himself with a basin of warm water with a squirt of shower gel in it, and squeeze out a wash cloth, you supervising. I'd also insist on times when he must try on the toilet, after all meals, and mid morning/afternoon drinks and snacks, and before bath and bed.

I thought that at first, which is why I went so easy because I didn't want to push him into potty training and it be horrible and stressful for him. I ask why he did it and he says "I was too busy, I didn't mean too, I won't do it again" or blames his (22mo!) brother then laughs and admits to it. Thing is, sometimes he can be so good and will go to the loo before a bath, and soon went for a poo this morning when I said the playroom wasn't to be used until he did (in a nice way). Sometimes he will go on the floor infront of us though and try and pretend he isn't and even though we encourage and coax him to the loo and say how wonderful he is for finishing in the loo, he won't bother another time. When the bribe is good enough he seems very able though I am wondering at what point it's toilet training issues and when it becomes him being lazy and naughty. I can totally understand accidents but he then can't be bothered to go to the loo when he clearly needs to.

We are having the same problem with DD who is 4.6, she was there last November and then had a bout of constipation, ithis hideous, we are under a paediatrician at the moment but there has been no improvement since appointments, she won't do a poo on the loo, the paed thinks there is no underlying emotional issue but I am not so sure.

Asecret, I didn't mean to sound harsh, but I think he knows you are unsure how to deal with it, and by apologising each time he has an accident he thinks he can win you over. The point is, he has still made a mess, and should at 4 be able to try to clean up. He needs to learn to respect his possessions and home, and other mumsnetters have had success with their children washing pants and cleaning floors, when they couldn't be bothered to go to the loo, the children soon decided they were missing out on much more fun activities, and just using the loo was much quicker.

Has he given any reasons why he won't go to the loo? I can offer a 'too much information' suggestion - that he enjoys the sensations of a full rectum. There are a lots of nerve endings in that area of the body, and by not going to the loo promptly he can prolong the enjoyment. I would suggest that actually doing it in front of you implies him trying to exert control over you in some way (which can be an issue unrelated to the way you toilet trained him, but is his only way of exerting control, or getting attention. Good luck with whatever plan you choose to go with!