Months in, seems to be getting worse!

[drspouse]

We started PT DD about 10-12 months ago because she refused to wear her nappies any more.
At first it was slow progress but within 4-6 weeks she was up to 80% especially at home so we persisted.
She never got the hang of poo and did all of them basically in her night or nap time nappy.
Now she's just over 3 and honestly is no better. Or even worse.
At home I can get her to stay dry all day, including at activities/friends houses/out in buggy or car. So maybe 90-95% with me. DH doesn't have as much luck but she's probably 80% with him. Nursery the absolute best ever in her current room is 80%. It's the 3y+ room and it's very busy, she gets distracted, lower ratios etc - she was actually better before she moved up in May.

We've tried going commando again, going without pants again under dresses, praising, ignoring, reminding, not reminding, taking her, letting her go on her own... Heelp!

But now she's just started being without nappies at night and is 100% dry so far a week in! She's obviously got the capacity (no wetting while asleep) but also happily wakes up, and comes to get us to go to the loo.

The only thing we are not going to do is go back to nappies - we'll keep a few on hand for illness but she CAN use the loo but just DOESN'T.

Asked in a FB group and got one "no idea as we haven't had that problem" and one "no idea as we have the same problem!".
DS was much simpler... Better aim too (though DD is mainly OK now).

I've been away from home and DH says if anything it's getting worse!

Yet she has been dry almost every night - and this has been going on for weeks/months (have lost the will to keep track).

Anyone? At all? Any clues!

Sorry, trying to figure out the issues from your post:

• Successfully wees in the potty/toilet 4 times out of 5
• Won't poo on the toilet or potty
• Dry overnight

Is that right?

If so, I'd tackle the poo issue, particularly as it's been so long. Have you gone back and read the chapter on poo issues?

That was the position about 4-5 months ago, but she was still wearing nappies at night, so most poos were in those.
Then she started weeing more in her pants/less in potty. I can't remember if it was before or after this, but she also started doing more poos in pants.
Now she's dry at night maybe 90% but is up to about 3-7 accidents per day (mainly wee but can be up to 3 poos per day). The increase in accidents happened before we took away the night nappy. We thought it might help (less confusion about where to do wee or poo) but it hasn't!

And yes we re-read that chapter but it didn't say much relevant, except not to put her in a nappy to do a poo, which we haven't.

Confusing!!

I'd definitely go no pants for the foreseeable future. Not sure what else to suggest. I presume you're prompting her to go quite regularly?

Yes lots!
I think we can go no pants at home and she's not too bad if it's just me or at the CM where there are maybe 2 children, but with DH and DS in the mix she deteriorates and she's appalling at nursery.
I think the CM would be a bit iffy about no pants but nursery might be OK.
Thankfully it's at least not like the early days when she refused both nappy and potty - most accidents are small. Except for poo.

OK confirmation from the CM that DD is almost always dry for her, as she is for me (DH insists she is always wet in the car, and hardly ever for me).
So I think we have a DH and nursery problem.
I think it is very slightly due to laziness on his part (not pushing her to go when she says she doesn't need it) and a lot of it is that he does keep them busy - so she's tired and distracted. And that's the same issue at nursery, compounded I feel with them not thinking she's really trained (she was properly trained in her previous room, but they seem to be thinking she's started from scratch, even though I've told them lots of times) and various carers with it being the 3+ room.

(By the way this is a very good argument for starting PT younger if your DC is in nursery! But it would be a lot easier if she was at the CM full time...)

Our son had a bit of a back slide, was still dry at night but struggled esp at nursery. Then gradually started to have more accidents at home.
First we talked to nursery, following a few aiming accidents they were making him get someone to take him too the toilet but of course ratios/meal times / playtimes etc ment he then was delayed and had more accidents plus stopped knowing his own signals and expected to be taken all the time which we didn't do at home. We discussed all this and agreed he should toilet alone and be encouraged to go back to doing standing wees (obv not poss for a girl but maybe pants completly off).

After a week or so we started to treat it more as deliberate wetting so he was reminded it is wrong to wee in the car/living room etc (firmly but not shouting) and had to stop playing, help clean up and then strip and wash in the bath tub, and redress. This all took much longer than just doing it ourselves but really seemed to help it sink in. He was around three as well.

We had a nightmare potty training, 16 months and counting. I went back to work two weeks ago and not an accident since, after daily accidents for months and months.

Is there anything routine based you can tinker with?

Also, , it's awful isn't it?

Hmm maybe we are going the wrong direction then? I and CM are prompting a lot more than DH and nursery, but we have more success. We also have more success in buggy/car (CM doesn't take her on car journeys) so I'm not completely sure it's that - as I tell her "go to the loo now, then you'll be dry in the car" and she is whereas DH tells her and she isn't...

I'm just hoping one day it will click!

I do think I probably need to take her to the GP to rule out anything bowel related but we are about to go on holiday (I suspect she will actually be better on holiday as she'll have both our attention, but it does mean we can't sort out her bowels if necessary, just yet).

My thinking is a child who is dry because you remind them to wee every hr or two isn't potty trained at all they have just learnt to wee on demand. That isn't a long term fix, they need to be able to recognise for themselves that they need a wee (obv before a car journey os different) and take themselves in time to avoid an accident.

I am inclined to agree - except that a) there is therefore a middle ground between "not using the potty" and "potty trained" in which we have to operate (as we are not putting her back into nappies until she magically self initiates) and b) she was quite happily self initiating before.

Yh thats the same back slide we had, DS was self initiating and then stopped. The treating it as purposeful wetting helped and was fairly quick (obv initially there was more accidents), no shouting or crying just telling him it was wrong and giving natural consquences to him rather than to us.

We are now a couple of weeks in with DD and she automatically thought weeing somewhere else was funny so we've done this from day two with her but a bit more gently as she is only 2.5. But she is also dry at night / uses a potty in her room alone, so we know she can if she wants to.

Good luck however you decide to proceed

Yes we also know she can if she wants to because a) she already has, daytime, for several months barring the odd (and I mean odd - a couple a week) distraction/tiredness issue and b) she can at night - she will get herself up and come and get us, or get herself up early morning and go on her own.

This morning DS went into her room to play early and she decided to wee on the carpet . Like your DD I think she decided it was funny! Especially with her big brother for an audience.

I'd be asking nursery to prompt her more frequently if she's self-initiating with you and the child minder. It's quite normal to have to tell children to go to the toilet when they're at school - they don't know that the appropriate time is just before assembly/lunch, after break etc so I don't think there's any harm in treating her nursery setting as slightly different.

We have asked them but I feel it's partly due to a wide variety of staff etc.

We've also had an issue with a variety of staff changing her if she has an accident and 90% of the time putting her in nursery clothes (when she has a large full bag of her own clothes, and then the nursery clothes hang around waiting to go back) and I'm slightly thinking of putting a reminder sticker on her saying "please put me in my own clothes as I have loads in my bag". I have said this several times on pick up and the member of staff always seemed slightly surprised that she had any spares!

So maybe a sticker saying "I sometimes say I don't need a wee when actually I do".

The problem with me/CM is that she can self-initiate but she has a tendency not to - I'm not sure if she doesn't really mind, or if she's also distracted/tired with us so forgets, or if she knows that we will prompt her. We, of course (that's me and CM) have possibly been prompting her too much (so she was OK self-initiating, had a wobble, we started back with prompting, she copes fine with us so we've carried on).

She does the classic wee dance/self-clutch and then says "no I don't" when you ask her if she needs a wee (though she does sometimes take herself in that situation once you've asked, or say "yes my need a wee" and go off after a prompt).

Update and I'm pleased to report improvements:
Still dry at night and still taking herself to the loo after bedtime and first thing in the morning (if her brother doesn't distract her first).
Much improved dryness in the day. Only one wee accident in the last 4 or 5 days. Mainly we/nursery have been reminding her but some self-initiated and more of a "remind and she takes herself" than "I'm taking you now despite protests".
Sadly we have yet to crack poo. Mainly they are done in her shorts with no comment (we're going commando which I think has helped a lot) but she does sometimes say "I need a poo" as she is starting and hope someone rushes her to the loo.

Wow she's doing so well!
She has in about 3 days gone back to self initiating most of the time. She's had a few wet pants but only drops when she hasn't quite made it in time (and she's been upset and insisted they were really wet) plus we've had about 50% of poos on the loo with her warning us.
Still going commando, I think it really helps her.

Glad to hear it is going so well for her.