Trump and vaccines. Do people like hearing this idiocy?

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Trump has signed an Executive Order to reduce the number of vaccines for US children and to split them over a number of visits, to make sure that the maximum number of children dont even get the full schedule, while warbling bollocks about a vat of vaccines’ being given to children and thecMMR being ‘lethal’. Stephen Miller said that ‘nobody has thought about’ the childhood vaccine schedule, ironically since the Executive Order is toothless because there is an expert committee along the lines of Nice that actually makes the decisions. I can imagine that the order will make the committee’s lives harder though.

Of all the egregious shite that this lot come up with, this whiskery old British conspiracy theory given brave new life in the NewWorld has to be some of the worst. Yet more children are going to die because of this terminally superficial bunch of IDIOTS. Chalk it up with the rest I guess.

I do not know much about vaccines. But this EO does seem rather dodgy to me. I fully support the use of them, and this EO does seem to be a dog whistle to the conspiracists.

Here is the EO.

Delivering Gold Standard Childhood Vaccine Recommendations for Americans – The White House

My first alarm bell is this.

Sec. 2. Recommendations for Childhood and Adolescent Vaccines. (a) Based on consultation with my advisors and review of available scientific evidence, it is hereby declared that the United States recognizes Gold Standard Childhood Vaccine Recommendations informed by the three distinct categories of childhood immunization recommendations identified in the scientific assessment, as specified below:

Because I do not see the study referenced linked. What study is he on about ? Always a red flag to me. Saying " A study says....", but not linking the study. That is conspiracists playbook for sure.

A bit of hunting on the "related documents" on the WH web, got me this : This appears to be the study.

Assessment of the U.S. Childhood and Adolescent Immunization Schedule Compared to Other Countries (hhs.gov)

And my first thought was, what countries did they review ? All of them ? I know he mentioned " peer countries". Here is a list of countries, page 9. There is not many countries on that. Attached below.

On the grab below, I have underlined this. I picked that because when I see a table, I want to see what it says about it. And check footnotes.

"It is generally considered contrary to basic medical ethics to coerce or require a medical intervention, and informed consent is a cornerstone of medical care in the U.S. and abroad.55"

There is a claim. Where did that come from ? Footnote 55. This will be a good study backing up the claim ?

That footnote 55 is this :

ICNCode-of-EthicsEN_Web.pdf

Ethics for nurses. So not a study that backs up the claim made.

Now the alarm bells are going. Lets check what other works are cited. Scanning through, and I got this.

Vaccines (skyhorsepublishing.com)

A consumer book about vaccines. "Vaccines Truth, Lies, and Controversy
"

As I say, I am not a medic. And I might be flamed for this. But I am getting a feeling that this study was very much a " We have a conclusion, we need a study to support it" type of thing.

Cherry picking what countries are used. Claims made with citations that do not match the claims directly.

Yeah. I am happy to be proven wrong of course. And that this is a medical led thing and not a political dog whistle.

It seems really dodgy and will put a number of people off. America also ran a disinformation campaign about a covid vaccine https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-covid-propaganda/

I’m not from the US (England). It goes to show that even someone who muddies the waters on vaccines at a time when vaccine hesitancy has led to unnecessary deaths can see the benefit of a chickenpox vaccine - something it’s taken our apparently pro vaccine leaders here in England decades to do.

Why would you think it was a medical led thing? This is Trump and Kennedy we’re talking about! Absolute fuckwits. This is dangerous conspiracy theory nonsense turned into policy. It’s terrifying 😩

Yes. I agree. I just done a basic fact check. And the report referenced does not appear medical led. It's a report that has been ordered for a political agenda.

This is for his MAGA conspiracists base.

And naturally, the current measles outbreak has nothing to do with vaccination hesitancy, so they don't join the dots at all.

Why they think they know more about vaccines than scientists and doctors across tbr globe is a mystery to me.

Trump&friends have taken Canadian statistics out of context.

Countries like Canada manage vaccine distribution via different public health resources, budget structures, and regional uptake.

His numbers are based on 2/10 provinces plus skewed data.

Due to a voluntary job I have, I've a connection with some US virologists who have been hopping mad ever since RFK Jr got into office. His decisions have literally cost lives, and will continue to do so. He has cancelled 22 mRNA vaccine projects because he says that "mRNA technology poses more risks than benefits for these respiratory viruses." Kennedy also claimed that mRNA vaccines can help "encourage new mutations and can actually prolong pandemics as the virus constantly mutates to escape the protective effects of the vaccine". Health experts have said that viruses mutate regardless of whether vaccines exist for them. Guess what, the health experts are right!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c74dzdddvmjo

Wowzers - so many different ways to screw up the world and the USA. I can't say I'm surprised.

Thanks for that info. And Canada are not alone it appears.

From the report that this EO is based on -

"COVID-19: In 2022, Denmark became the first peer nation to remove its universal recommendation of the COVID-19 vaccine for children, with the director of its public health authority recognizing that there was little benefit in giving this vaccine to children.173"

Checking the citation 173 in the footnotes gives this tabloid style article .

Set i bakspejlet fik vi ikke meget ud af at vaccinere børnene, erkender Brostrøm - TV 2

Yes, little benefit to doing kids, because it was not to try to protect kids but to contain the spread. And they felt it was wrong to potentially "guilt" the kids in the case of older relatives dying.

Anyway, while Looking for that, I got This. Danish scientists say Denmark is nothing like the US when it comes to formulating vax policy, so should not be directly compared.

Why experts say Denmark is no model for U.S. vaccine policy : NPR

And yes, I just used a news site to make a point on a scientific discussion. And why not ? It is what Trumps team are doing. Why are they even using a Danish policy on Covid jabs in a paper such at this.

Looking at it closer, it is starting to read like a paper a couple of scientists might come up with for the flat earth society.

Another example:

A fundamental principle of public health is trust.32

That is footnote 32. Lets check what that footnote links to. I expect it will be a major study in the subject ?

Academy-for-Science-Freedom-WhitePaperdigi-8-22.pdf (hillsdale.edu)

No. It's a pamphlet that says " During the SARS-CoV-2 pandemic, fundamental principles of public health were ignored, and, as a result, trust in public health has been damaged. As experts in public health, medical science, ethics, and health policy, we propose the following ten principles to guide public health officials and scientists, in order to ensure the credibility of public health recommendations and to help restore public trust"

This really if flat earth level science. The citations used do not backup the claims being made.

Its genuinely a baffling level of stupidity/lying from Trump “I’ve seen proof of it, where they have a vaccination where it looks like the size of a bottle of soda, poured into a little child’s body”. What is he talking about??

Everything Trump does leaves me shaking my head in wonder. This one is actually murderous.

“Yes, little benefit to doing kids, because it was not to try to protect kids but to contain the spread. And they felt it was wrong to potentially "guilt" the kids in the case of older relatives dying.”

This is a viewpoint. In England for example, the health benefits to children of taking the covid vaccine were eventually assessed without taking onward societal benefits into account. It benefited children.

I assume that is to me ?

Yes, because there was more to vaxing kids. Other factors come into it. What sort of lockdown is in place, are people mixing. Face masks being worn, hand hygiene in use. And so on.

So the Trump group were totally wrong to point at Denmark and say " Look, they said this".

What they should be doing is looking at Denmark and other places, and work out what worked best. But the Trump report barely mentions results.

These Trump scientists are basically coming at this as if they are flat earthers doing a document for dear leader Trump to show the earth is flat. The man is a total menace to the world.

When all other factors were removed, there was still a benefit to children of being vaccinated was what I was trying to say. It was a standalone benefit.

Agree Trump is dangerous.

Id love to see what scientific evidence Trump and his team are basing their decisions.

This will likely cause countless deaths and life changing I'll effects from what otherwise would be a preventable disease.

When Trump caught COVID he received state of the art vaccinations...no one else could get. So he's peddling whakko theories but unwilling to chance it himself.

Actually it has everything thing to do with people rejecting vaccines, you are very unlikely to get ill from measles if you're vaccinated.

Millions of people in the UK get vaccinated with no issues at all

I posted the link above.

I was being sarcastic...