Is the Tory Party finished?

[Peregrina]

With the news that Suella Bravaman has defected to Reform (and thinks she's "come home") do you think that's the end of the Tory Party? Or do you think that it may yet bounce back?

I think a lot will depend on how Badenoch decides to play it.

If she sees the defections as an opportunity to clear out the trash and then rebrand the Tories as a centre right "one nation" party without the far right loons, then I think she would likely find a market for that amongst the electorate. If she carries on along the current trajectory of trying to be Reform Lite, then no, I think think Farage would eat her for breakfast.

Funny how the Labour defection never materialised, isn’t it? I bet there never was one and he said that because he was being criticised. They are the worst of the Tories so the trash is taking itself out. Hopefully it will be the final nail for reform. The Tories could take this opportunity to regroup and get some fresh, more reasonable MP’s in.

Finished? Goodness, no. This is all part of the plan. It's GOOD news about Braverman because it means um... Oh yes she's done them a favour by leaving before they had to push her out for ... You know, things. It's all a sign of a united and powerful party.

Not particularly. Still a lot in the mix. Labour going down, people moving across who knows.

The Tory statement is fierce. They are obviously really feeling it.

I knew it was just a matter of time before SB went to where her views naturally align.
Good luck to them all!

They've backtracked on it now - they're claiming that the snipe about her mental health was in an earlier draft that shouldn't have been published.

More like they realised that it didn't sound too great. All a bit embarrassing.

We can only hope, would love to see the elite old boys’ network disintegrate never to return

It had Badenoch's fingerprints all over it.

Peter Hitchens described the Tory's and Labour parties as being "necessary to each other," and described them as "two corpses propping each other up".
I think Blair's political world which Conservatives and Labour shared are from a world that has vanished, I think it will be hard Left or Right politics now as what we have now is failing.

Yes, it did sound like her.

I thought she dealt with Jenrick's defection rather well, but much as I dislike Suella, it was a bad call to make bitchy comments about her mental health. I suspect she thought she was being clever, and then pulled it because her allies told her that it looked bad.

Good riddance to Suella in any case.

I agree with this. But I’m not sure it would ring true from Badenoch. She’s not a centre right Tory.

I agree. Might not be very credible.

I sincerely hope that this is part of the development of the Conservatives to a simpler One Nation Party.
Conservatism is an instinct and is rather difficult to define. One so often explains it by saying we are not x or y.
We have Principles and ambitions to have smaller Government and to keep out of peoples personal lives there are more of course.
To act ethically not merely legally. We all have our own ideas. Those within the Party are as aware of the failings as anyone else. For most of my adult life I voted and supported the Tories. When Boris 'stood down' I joined the party.
I have said to friends that I only want to be part of an ethical party. Not willing to support someone like Boris on the grounds that he is more likely to get us into Govt.
Let us be open, honest and truthful. We will see how far we can progress.
I am not the only one who feels like this. Even though it may take 3 Elections to get back to forming a government.

It’s interesting that now there are more former cabinet members on the Reform front bench than the Tory one. It’s the perfect opportunity for Badenoch to rebrand the party and return to its pre Johnson one nation status. Ruth Davidson and Andy Street have come together to push that case but I somehow doubt Badenoch’s listening to them.

Badenoch isn’t centre right though, so if someone does make that happen, it won’t be her. I agree it would be the best move for the Tories though. Accept they have moved too far right and for all the wrong reasons and outline a credible way forward and allow the lunatics to defect.

I like to think that a lot people who have previously voted Tory aren't ignorant/nasty enough to vote Reform. (a party which admires President Fart and his new Brownshirts, and wants a similar evil taskforce in the UK)
I cling on to hope that Farage's racist, warmongering ideals might appeal to the more extreme right and not the majority of voters, which they need. But I've been wrong before...

They might have to get rid of Badenoch if she is unable to pivot to a more centrist position.

Voters who want Reform style policies will just vote for Reform, not Tory. And centre right voters who are repelled by Reform will drift away from the Tories if they keep adopting Reform style rhetoric.

The Tory party has succeeded in the past by being a very broad church that has encompassed everyone from the centre right to the very hard right. Now those on the hard right have somewhere else to go, they can no longer rely on this uneasy coalition continuing. They need to adapt accordingly.

Ruth Davidson and Andy Street clearly recognise that, but unless Kemi buys into it and gets on board with it, I don't think they will succeed in making the shift without getting themselves a new leader.

Let’s see. The only leaders / parties going up are Greens and Cons. Labour are on a ski slope downwards.

If she’s going up whilst others decline that’s a better position to be in.

I don't think the Tories are done for just yet - I think it depends how well Reform do in forthcoming local elections and any by-elections.

I think the electorate will see the bare-faced cheek of the recent defectors who are slagging-off the Tory governments but were themselves major players and Cabinet ministers!

Boris Johnson ruined the Tories, IMO. He had that big 80 seat majority, against the odds; took many Red Wall seats and still managed to spaff it all up the wall - to use his own words.

So many sensible tories were thrown out by Johnson…. The nutters that have gone to join reform are no great loss. Whether the Conservative Party will rise again will depend on attracting left leaning conservatives…. Will be interesting to see what Andy street and Ruth Davidson achieve.

Reform is very right wing on immigration, lowering taxes, net zero etc but strangely it also wants to increase public spending-which makes them more left-leaning.
Frankly, their economic policies do not add up unless we want to increase our budget deficit.
I am not sure how Jenrick and Braverman will align themselves with Reform's economic policies even if they agree with their immigration policies.
IMO, the conservatives are the only ones who have a sensible economic policy. I also want the conservatives to stick to the policy to control immigration.

He said in a recent Bloomberg interview he was going to cut spending and tax the banking industry as he ‘doesn’t like banks very much’ after they debanked him. So he has a personal grudge. Really good example of a future PM

And based on her speech today, it’s not what she’s chosen to go for!

Oh, I haven't seen the speech?

Oh well. No surprises really.