Just what has Britain got to be proud of ?

[ivanhoe]

The British Empire was built on the slave trade.

Right wing Capitalism continues to use the poor as fodder for making the rich richer.

Just what has Britain got to be proud of ?

Yes, Britain is a shxt hole, immoral, decadent, with a lazy minded, ill educated populas.

with lousey spellling skills. - so lazey-minded.

Oh FFS!

Do you do anything to improve your area, Ivanhoe? Or do you just sit around and whine?

Go to the Congo, why don't you, and then come back and sling some more shit.

Gotcha

oh leave ivy alone. What's Britain got to be proud of? Ivanhoe!!

Oh bugger the Congo.

Such self rightious statements are pathetically stupid.

Ivanhoe is big around here (where I live). Every time I pass something named after him, I feel the need to yell 'Ivanhoooooooooe!'. I don't know why.

In what way, Ivanhoe ?

I like to think about something I care about, write it down and then watch the sparks fly.

No!!! really?

(& there was me thinking you were trying to change the world, one MNer at a time.)

I rate us via Western Europe, Germany, France ect.

Western E

struggling to think

I compare us to Western Europe. To Germany, to France. They have the most well funded ecucation systems in the world, and why do they ?

Becauae income taxes are higher in Western Europe, than in Britain.

Never. That's a general British problem.

I think you have a point about taxes in other countries providing much better public services, ivanhoe. Medical treatment in France - much better. Travel org. in Germany - much better. Outside of that, when you venture into Spain, Italy and Greece the picture becomes a good deal less clear.

Seems a tad reductive to base your opinion of a nation with a very long history on 2 things, one of which is many decades out of date. Firstly, there's no perfect nation; everywhere has its faults. Secondly, capitalism exists in just about every nation on earth. But to answer your question, here's my list:

1. Following from your slave comment, the abolition movement.
2. The trade union movement & workers' rights
3. Free education, healthcare, libraries, museums
4. A free press (yes, often biased & not perfect, but free)
5. Freedom of speech, so we can tell you to cut the negative crap
6. The fact that the British have a strong sense of charity & giving. Just look how many gave time & money to help those affected by riots & how much is raised from personal donations for disasters abroad
7. The fact that fascism never took hold in this country & a britain held out, alone early in WW2. To this day, far right groups have never gained any significant foothold politically
8. Our huge, ongoing legacy of fantastic literature, music & art
9. Democracy

I could go on, but I'd be here all night. There's plenty done in the past & present that we shouldn't be proud of, one of which is a tendency of some to gripe & moan without taking into consideration the positive contributions made. As someone else said, if you don't like it, one of our strengths is that you're free to try & change it.

Now, if we're into blaming countries for their past history, I don't see how you can be so soft on the Scandinavians, ivanhoe.

And if you're basing your disgust of Britain on the slave trade, why hold Germany up as a paragon given their more recent history? For that matter France too, as it took 15 years longer for them to abolish slavery in their own colonies (yes, it wasn't just us who had them). Very strange logic...

"Everybody is responsible". WTF - I am responsible for slavery? I don't bloody think so. Unless my birth certificate is an elaborate forgery, I was born rather a long time after slavery ended.

Like CheeryYank said, what do you do to improve things, Ivanhoe?

ivanhoe im guessing you've never lived anywhere but britain, so you think you've got it really tough here, you dont what how good you've got it here do you ? Pray you never do.

Youre obviously very well fed, clothed, housed, and reasonably healthy, which is why you even have the time and energy to slag of britain and ponder what britain has got to be proud of.

Actually slave trade is a good point, the trade was abhorrent but we were the first European nation to abolish it. William Wilberforce and his fellow campaigners worked incredibly hard against the odds for abolition - we can be proud of them. And the ordinary Lancashire cotton workers who starved rather than break the cotton boycott i.e. rather than support slavery.

Btw, French health system costs far more than the NHS. For all Tony Blair's many faults, the money he put into the NHS to repair the damage done by previous governments was merely to move us towards the European average on health spending.

Better public transport on the continent is because those governments invest in public transport - the French put far more into their railways.

Ivanhoe, if the UK is so bad, and France and Germany are so much better (even though they were involved in everything the UK was involved in regarding the slave trade, and have just the same problems with racial intolerance now) then as (presumably) a citizen of the UK you are perfectly at liberty to move to any country in Europe.

I think that if you do, you'll discover that it's not just the British that can be pompous, decadent, immoral, ill-educated and lazy minded but that you can find those elements in any society.

Several very beautiful national parks.

The roads? Come on, our infra-structure is the worst in the developed world. Because our roads are better than Sierra Leone is not something to be proud of.