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Philosophy/religion

Join our Philosophy forum to discuss religion and spirituality.

If someone claimed to be the Son of God today…

581 replies

Nutcracks · 13/12/2024 22:46

If someone claimed today all the things that Jesus did/said, would you believe them?

Curious about how people would respond in today’s world.

OP posts:
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Boohbooh · 14/12/2024 11:59

I'm sorry your post read like you were saying all people of faith were indoctrinated and unable to think for themselves, like some sort of hapless fool.

Some inherited Christtanity for sure and had no choice but not all SleepyHippy3. See the article on China above. I've been to China on business (my business is unrelated to religion) and have seen the lines of adults in church. Nobody is forcing them to convert and there is very little history of Christianity there, so they, and others, must find something compelling in the message which has allowed it to last and grow outside of an inherited religion.

SleepyHippy3 · 14/12/2024 12:13

Boohbooh · 14/12/2024 11:59

I'm sorry your post read like you were saying all people of faith were indoctrinated and unable to think for themselves, like some sort of hapless fool.

Some inherited Christtanity for sure and had no choice but not all SleepyHippy3. See the article on China above. I've been to China on business (my business is unrelated to religion) and have seen the lines of adults in church. Nobody is forcing them to convert and there is very little history of Christianity there, so they, and others, must find something compelling in the message which has allowed it to last and grow outside of an inherited religion.

I have clearly said that for the vast majority of religious people, that they were born into said religion, and raised in that religion, without questioning it. Babies don’t have the ability to make that choice, it is given to them at birth, they inherit those beliefs. What they do with belief is different, but I am specifically talking about how religion gains the majority of its followers, in the first instance.

I have no doubt that there millions of people, globally, who convert to different religions voluntarily, and done so a voluntary choice. But the fact remains that the rise in Christian numbers is to do with ever expanding birth rates.

Another2Cats · 14/12/2024 12:36

Behindthethymes · 14/12/2024 09:46

Which claims specifically?

I’m puzzled because in the bible Jesus kept claiming to be “the son of man” and apart from calling God the equivalent of “daddy” and encouraging everyone else to do the same, I can’t see where he made any claims at all.

Of all the prophets I’ve read about, he seems like a really decent sort, and I can see why people were so taken with him.

According to the gospels he did things rather than said he would do things. Do you mean claims like the end of the world being near?

Lots and lots of people have claimed this in the meantime.

I agree with you. Jesus didn't claim to be the son of God. That was attributed to him much later.

TheOnlyLivingBoyInNewCross · 14/12/2024 12:53

I would imagine that these days you simply have to state that you identify as the son of God and everyone has to believe you otherwise they risk being cancelled, fired or investigated by the police 🤷🏻‍♀️ At least that’s my understanding of how things work now.

AllProperTeaIsTheft · 14/12/2024 12:55

Well no, because I don't believe in god. Anyone who claimed to be the son of god would no doubt be either delusional or a grifter. Or both.

AlteredStater · 14/12/2024 13:00

Another2Cats · 14/12/2024 12:36

I agree with you. Jesus didn't claim to be the son of God. That was attributed to him much later.

Yes He did claim to be the Son of God.

ESV, Mark 14:60-62 "And the high priest stood up in the midst and asked Jesus, “Have you no answer to make? What is it that these men testify against you?” But he remained silent and made no answer. Again the high priest asked him, “Are you the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?” And Jesus said, “I am, and you will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of Power, and coming with the clouds of heaven.”

pikkumyy77 · 14/12/2024 13:03

BeccaS34 · 14/12/2024 04:40

A lot of people claim it but they’re generally cult leaders who want your money. Maybe I just watch too many documentaries 😂

I think the reason people liked Christianity is that it represented a reversal element. It developed into a belief system where instead people of sacrificing to a god, god sacrifices himself for you. And there’s a heavy emphasis on doing good works and seeking to cooperate/reach consensus.

It starts off as fringe sect but ultimately it offered people something they saw as valuable. Most people who portray themselves as Jesus (cult leaders still do this) are focused pretty explicitly on control and money. They’ll like build a big estate for themselves and demand unpaid work from others, but they don’t really offer comfort or act pro-socially in the way the Gospels portray Jesus as doing: living simply, healing and feeding others etc.

This is such a good point. However modern day claimants do often start out sacrificially or emphasizing social commitment. Jim Jones and his people’s church did. Lots of cult leaders start out pretending to be humble and only really reveal their dictatorial and exploitive side later when their followers are committed.

I think the OP’s question leads me to think about what would seem miraculous to us today—we are just as gullible as our ancestors. Its clear that lots of people still look forward a messiah and will buy any plausible rogue’s patter.

WetBandits · 14/12/2024 13:04

Most people who claim to have been spoken to by somebody who isn’t there have some kind of underlying health issue.

rararararararar · 14/12/2024 13:04

Surely if (as most religious people believe) god is the great father (or mother), then we are all the sons and daughters of god?

SleepyHippy3 · 14/12/2024 13:06

AlteredStater · 14/12/2024 11:46

I don't really agree with those sentiments. Certainly you can be influenced by your family's religion to start with, but eventually people make their own decisions and may totally go against what they grew up with, marry into another religion and subsequently change their original one, fall into disbelief, etc.

I grew up in a loosely Christian household but didn't really confirm my faith until my twenties when I started reading the Bible properly. Even then I still lapsed for many years till coming back recently. I've learned a lot and keep on learning about my faith every day.

Yes, eventually, a lot of people grow up and review that faith, on their terms. But many, many don’t, and their religious status quo will never be questioned by them..But either way, the vast majority of people are born into faith, obviously with out choice.

AllProperTeaIsTheft · 14/12/2024 13:09

AlteredStater · 14/12/2024 13:00

Yes He did claim to be the Son of God.

ESV, Mark 14:60-62 "And the high priest stood up in the midst and asked Jesus, “Have you no answer to make? What is it that these men testify against you?” But he remained silent and made no answer. Again the high priest asked him, “Are you the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?” And Jesus said, “I am, and you will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of Power, and coming with the clouds of heaven.”

How can anyone claim that the Bible is a reliable source and directly quoting a man who was apparently the son of god though?! It's not like it's an audio recording or was even written down within Jesus' lifetime!

AgileGreenSeal · 14/12/2024 13:13

Nutcracks · 13/12/2024 22:46

If someone claimed today all the things that Jesus did/said, would you believe them?

Curious about how people would respond in today’s world.

No, because He already warned us about this.

For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and will deceive many.”
Matthew 24:5

and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people.”
Matthew 24:11

So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.”
Matthew 24: 26-27

Boohbooh · 14/12/2024 13:13

The majority may have yes, of course followers baptise their babies into the faith. Many people question and fall away. Yet more follow blindly, according to you, but not all are as dumb as you seem to think. A lot of people get a lot out of their faith. Somelike myself who spent years as an atheist and a great number of other adults convert(China). There are also and have always been people choose to keep the faith under the most difficult of circumstances.

https://www.albawaba.com/news/iran%E2%80%99s-christian-converts-struggle-under-surveillance-state-1218354

It suggests to me there is something more at play than population dynamics, indoctrination and ignorance. That's too simplistic.

Iran’s Christian Converts Struggle Under Surveillance State | Al Bawaba

Iran's persecution of Christian converts is pushing them to create underground house churches.

https://www.albawaba.com/news/iran%E2%80%99s-christian-converts-struggle-under-surveillance-state-1218354

Thegreatestoftheseislove · 14/12/2024 13:14

Another2Cats · 14/12/2024 12:36

I agree with you. Jesus didn't claim to be the son of God. That was attributed to him much later.

He may not have said the three words “I am God”, but on many occasions Christ Jesus Himself claimed His deity and also made it clear He was God incarnate. https://www.gotquestions.org/is-Jesus-God.html

Is Jesus God? Why should I believe that Jesus is God? | GotQuestions.org

Is Jesus God? Why should I believe that Jesus is God? Is Jesus God in the flesh?

https://www.gotquestions.org/is-Jesus-God.html

Nutcracks · 14/12/2024 13:15

Thanks for all the replys. Some great points.

I agree, that perhaps people are just as gullible and just as willing to accept what someone says today as they did in the past. Although, I can almost understand, that in the past people were really hoping there is more to the small world they seen around them.

I find it really difficult to accept how we got from someone making claims about themself and billions of people have blindly accepted is as the truth. Same with believing what these ‘witnesses’ have said. If these claims were made today, I’d assume they were mad, as would a lot of people. However, because they were made and written down in the past it somehow becomes truth.

OP posts:
AgileGreenSeal · 14/12/2024 13:15

Thegreatestoftheseislove · 14/12/2024 02:10

No. The Bible has made it clear that when He returns it will not be as gentle Jesus, meek and mild - an otherwise non descript baby, boy, man seen only by a few and for His arrival to be spread by gossip or mutterings on social media. This time around EVERY eye shall see Him. He will fulfill the role of Israel’s Deliverer and King, and the whole world will mourn for not recognising Him and His sacrifice the first time around. See Rev 19 There will be no room for doubt that He is here. Praise God!

Amen 🙌🏻
Love this answer. 👏🏻👏🏻

Nolegusta · 14/12/2024 13:19

Nutcracks · 13/12/2024 22:46

If someone claimed today all the things that Jesus did/said, would you believe them?

Curious about how people would respond in today’s world.

I'd think they were also mentally ill, as this jesus figure must have been (if he were real).

TwoLeftSocksWithHoles · 14/12/2024 13:25

If someone appeared and immediately sorted out the climate (why does God let it happen?) and all wars ended peacefully (why does God let them happen?) and we all had enough food and were able to absorb all that we ate (why did God make us need to go to the toilet?) and we could move about effortlessly (why did God create such a piss-poor train service?) ...then I might believe them.

Xenia · 14/12/2024 13:28

There are plenty of groups/cults where someone (usually male) is worshipped as God. Of the 8 billion on the planet 2.4 billions are Christian, 1.9m Muslim, about 1m Hindus. So quite a lot.

Xenia · 14/12/2024 13:29

.. I meant 1.2 billion Hindus - not 1m.

AgileGreenSeal · 14/12/2024 13:32

rararararararar · 14/12/2024 13:04

Surely if (as most religious people believe) god is the great father (or mother), then we are all the sons and daughters of god?

No, scripture makes it clear that in order to become a child of God, in a living relationship with Him, one must be born again, supernaturally born spiritually by God, not just born in a human way.

Jesus Himself taught this, in a recorded conversation with a Pharisee called Nicodemus.

Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.”

”How can someone be born when they are old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!”

Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit.
Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’”
John 3: 3-7

Scripture also teaches us the mechanism by which this birth happens - by grace through faith in Christ alone.

He (Jesus) was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognise him. He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him.

Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.
John 1: 10:13

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast”
Ephesians 2: 8-9

Nutcracks · 14/12/2024 13:35

@AgileGreenSeal Respectfully, what makes you think any of this is true and not just simply made up?

OP posts:
AgileGreenSeal · 14/12/2024 13:37

AgnesX · 14/12/2024 10:02

He'll have his work cut out in this world of misinformation.

How so?
Everyone will see Him return. Their own eyes will provide the evidence.

It will be so evident to all what is happening, people will be terrified, hide and mourn.

Boohbooh · 14/12/2024 13:38

Xenia · 14/12/2024 13:28

There are plenty of groups/cults where someone (usually male) is worshipped as God. Of the 8 billion on the planet 2.4 billions are Christian, 1.9m Muslim, about 1m Hindus. So quite a lot.

Some people would believe that there are so many in these faiths because they were born into it, indoctrinated in it and don't question any aspect of it. I think it reflects the human desire to find meaning and truth outside of ourselves.

By the way Muslims would not worship Mohammad at all and Hindu is muti-deity with female goddesses.

AgileGreenSeal · 14/12/2024 13:39

Nutcracks · 14/12/2024 13:35

@AgileGreenSeal Respectfully, what makes you think any of this is true and not just simply made up?

I came to know Him personally before I read the Bible. His Spirit consistently bears witness with my spirit that I am His and that what I read in scripture is reliable.