If someone claimed to be the Son of God today…

[Nutcracks]

If someone claimed today all the things that Jesus did/said, would you believe them?

Curious about how people would respond in today’s world.

So finally got round to reading this article, it’s very interesting and I definitely read some more of this persons work, so thank you for that. So what did you think of the article?

In summary, both Muslims and Jews read Ancient Greek philosophy. They used the frameworks and concepts established by these Greek Philosophers against the backdrop of Ancient Greece with its own religions and cults to answer their own questions about, inter alia the nature of God, creation and prophecy. Within Islam different philosophers who were Islamic came up with different conclusions on these matters. Maimonides had read these various philosophers as well as many others who were commenting on these same questions he was asking, like most philosophers of the time using Aristotle/plotinus and to a much lesser extent Neoplatonic thought thought to answer these age old questions. Sometime Maimonides’ writings showed that he came to the same conclusions as one Philosopher who was Islamic, other times another Philosopher. Quite often there is disagreement between scholars over what Maimonides and the other Philosophers thought and some Scholars argue that the Philosophers wrote the opposite of what they thought. This all makes it very difficult to say who actually agreed with whom. Some of the language indicate that (very unsurprisingly Maimonides had read these various other philosophers). At no point is there any indication that Maimonides agreed or was swayed by Islam.

So a great article, thanks. But I’m a little lost what point you were trying to make. Perhaps you could clarify (or you could ask a friend).

Personally, if I was trying to show the impact of the Philosophers who were Islamic on Judaism I would have picked the Lurianic tree of life- but there you go.

I think the thread might fill up soon, thanks for all the input. All very interesting.
I am left with the question, why would a loving god create such a system of creating humans who will eternally burn if they don’t believe in him? If he is in charge of everything, then how can there be a Hell, how did he allow temptation and sin?
If He created Hell and sin, then he is not loving, not omnipotent, not omniscient or omnipresent. So is not a God.

Well, I think the usual Christian position is that he created humanity without sin (so no need for hell). Then the fall happened which meant disobeying God. Like any loving parent there had to be consequences for not listening to (ie accepting Gods grace and following his rules) ie Hell- being outside Gods Grace. He bestowed Free Will on us (thanks Thomas Aquinas - good catch) so everyone has a chance to be saved.

The Bible, of course is a lot more complicated as it developed over time..

Hell didn’t really exist for the Old Testament - you have Sheol/hades which is a neutral place for the dead. The Book of Jonah (basically where a lot of the Gospel story was copied from - Jesus even cheekily acknowledged that - has Jonah praying for salvation from Sheol where he spent 3 days after sacrificing himself (body in the whale- soul in Sheol). Interestingly here the people of the capital of Assyria were saved because they repented, God acknowledged there was no need to believe in him. This reflects the idea that Jews were held to a higher standard but were not the only people who could be saved. God had a mission for Jonah - he ignored the Will of God and was punished for it. The NT is a sliding doors moment for the Book of Jonah in many respects. The New Testament never says that Jesus went to Hell in those 3 days - he went deep into the Earth - it’s the Apostles Creed that does that properly.

We shouldn’t forget Jesus was largely preaching to Jews.

The mention of Tartarus in 2Peter2:24 refers to Angels being thrown by God into the darkness.

Theres a few mentions here and there of places that could be read as hell - but nothing you could really hang your hat on.

According to Revelations- people will only be cast into the lake of fire at the day of Judgement- This eschatological hell enhanced by poets and painters is what people mainly think of - but then Revelation states 144,000 will be saved- 12,000 for each of the 12 tribes of Israel - suddenly no one wants a literal reading of the Bible at this point and there a lot of tying in knots over this. Conveniently, the New Jerusalem is 12000 stadia wide, long and high which should make it pretty easy to carve up between the tribes of Israel - each tribe has even got its own Gem stone. Chances are Christians won’t be getting a ride on this space ship. Jews were always Gods chosen people after all. Never mind, the Devil always had the best tunes and heaven without decent music is no heaven at all - there’s bits though in the NT saying all Christian souls are in heaven though (I think this is where predestination comes from)

Theres lots of other versions, Earth being hell - created by the demiurge God of the Old Testament (Gnostics) Emanation and reflection - Neoplatonic and all the usually mystical believers who followed (no hell just far away from the light), pain being necessary for God to experience all aspects of itself (the purpose of creation-etc etc.

So Hell is largely man made

Where was it ever decided that gods rules are better than free will?

You don’t need a religious set off rules to lead a good life. You only have to look at the damage church leaders have done.

Im Not sure what you’re getting at here.

This though, is probably why it’s best not to take the Bible/Torah/Quran too literally