If someone claimed to be the Son of God today…

[Nutcracks]

If someone claimed today all the things that Jesus did/said, would you believe them?

Curious about how people would respond in today’s world.

Just goes to show the lacking in science doesn’t it?

@KnowThatIKnowNot - Why don't you just go to Jewish Mumsnetters and ask there whether they consider Ezra to be the Son of God? Surely that's the most obvious way to get an answer to your assertion!

Somewhere in the back of my mind Maimonides set out that this claim about Ezra was enough in itself to prove Islam was a false religion (but I must admit the memory isn’t what it used to be so would need to do some digging and apologise if I’ve misremembered).

But Islam isn’t a false religion

Oh come on, it is to a Jew in the 1200s. The point was as one of the greatest Jewish thinkers considered this claim by Islam was so wrong it meant that it proved Mohammed wasn’t speaking the truth - it’s unlikely that Jews think Ezra was the son of God. - Do keep up!

No one knows what happened in 1200 or what people were thinking!

Surely we have documents from the 1200s that show we do?

Really?????? This is what happens when the humanities and arts are sacrificed at the altar of STEM in the educational system.

Clearly history is not an academic area any more!

Here are some of the historical happenings between 1200-1300 AD

https://www.historycentral.com/dates/1200ad.html

Most of it is fighting btw. Probably should have invented mobile phones sooner, then people would've been too busy scrolling to fight.

Funny! My degree is in science! Fact not fiction

That doesn’t surprise me. So you think historical study is fiction?

What I’ve learned on this thread is that some people need religion, it makes them feel good
. Others of us don’t need that. Those who believe can’t prove it - it’s a part of their imagination - again good if it’s makes them happy.
Nothing bad will happen to you if you don’t believe but others may threaten you that it will but they have no evidence.
My life is good so nothing to be gained by believing. Others need it for a good life.

@Feelingathomenow This is simply laughable. How many questions and queries that I have posed that you never have the decency to fully answer?

Are we playing the numbers game now in a messaging board where it can get otreet difficult to pick up a thread from where you left off unless you have plenty of time o. Your hands, which I don't I'm afraid.

About Jews believing Ezra is son of god, statement. You don't seem to read well or understand what you read.

Did I not make it clear that you should ask a learned Jewish scholar who maybe familiar about that claim?

What I will admit is that, due to my lack of proof reading, I didn't write what I was supposed to. What I meant to write was that 'some' Jews claim that "Ezra is a son of God" and not the mainstream Jews.

Be very careful and understand that I am not claiming it's a core belief in Judaism but some Jews.

However, I am not sure why you are so hungon about an issue that is a mute point considering we are discussing Jesus?

Anyway, I personally find it ludicrous some of your explanations and utterly nonsensical about jesus being son of god and God himself and then there's this mysterious holy spirit that no one can make any sense of, yet all three are one?

I honestly don't know what kind of person you have to be to actually get your head around this belief system to be saved? If I try to explain this concept to people around me, I'll most certainly be institutionalised.

But, good luck to all those who can understand it and believe in it.

Right so let me set this out very clearly:

You state that Jews (which you now limit to “some Jews”) believe Ezra is the Son of God.

I say that is a claim of Islam and it’s incorrect

You say, I don’t know what I’m saying so I ought to ask Prominent Jewish Scholars.

I say none of the Jewish Scholars I know of back up that position and ask you to refer to the prominent Jewish scholars who back up that position

You ignore that request (despite me asking several times)

You then ask me to clarify what I think you have said is false - I state you claim that Jews think Ezra is The son of God. I gain ask you to refer to the prominent Jewish Scholars you have previously referred to.

You now say that I clearly haven’t read widely enough, you meant to write “some” Jews and you still can’t answer my question. Instead you undertake some weird gaslighting diatribe - say it’s not a point (even though you initially brought it up). Even more bizarrely “Be careful I’m not saying it’s a core belief of Judaism” you seem very angry and aggressive! What you said originally was “Jews believe” I’m sure I could find a scientist who thinks the world is flat. You have now made your point null and void. I will ask some prominent Jewish scholars this week about the now “null point” Why don’t you just admit you got it wrong, that you haven’t a clue what you’re writing and that it’s you, not me who needs to read more widely.

You say into a “ludicrous system” but at the same time you “can’t get your head around it” how can you say something is “ludicrous” even though you cant understand it and say you have no intention of even reading the Bible? I doubt you would be “institutionalised” for setting out a basic premise of the worlds largest religion followed by nearly 1/3 of the world!

I'm sorry if I've missed any of your questions - if you can list them out, I’m happy to an answer them to the best of my ability.

Please see my above post I've clarified my typo regarding Ezra what you seem to be concerned about rather than your Jesus question.

Very interesting indeed. Diversion tactics is what Christian missionaries are well known for.

Anyhow, since you're now expert on making claims about Islam. Still don't know what your fascination is with it.

You're clearly not a student of comparative religious studies, if you were you would not be making such a childish and uneducated comments.

Sorry to burst your anti islamic bubbles. Since you brought it up, let me educate you about the greatest Jewish mind in all of Jewish history was born and raised and studied in Qurtuba (Cordoba), Andalusia under Muslim rule.

And who was that person? Musa Ibn Maymum (aka, Moses Maimonides). Jewish people call him Rambam.

He studied and learnt all the Islamic traditions in an Islamic madrasa institution including memorising the Quran, Hadiths, Fiq - laws and jurisprudence. His thinking is based on islamic influences and travelled most Muslim countries.

He mastered Ibn Sina and became the most talented physician and became the personal doctor to none other than Salah-Adin, the liberator of Jerusalem from the Crusaders!

Don't take my word for it, maybe you want go to the University of Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy and perhaps read the article
The Influence of Islamic Thought on Maimonides.
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/maimonides-islamic/

You see that’s really not the position at all. People don’t “need” religion/spiritual beliefs, they are just in tune with a different way of viewing the world. So you view the world through a scientific frame, you see the world within the parameters understood and set out be science. I view the Physical world through this frame too. However, I have an additional filter that enables me to see the world in a different way, a spiritual way. I see a different realm by overlaying that filter. For me that is more beautiful and true than simile looking through a scientific filter - some people, unfortunately won’t ever experience what this filter does because they feel safer just looking at the world through the scientific frame, it’s that’s right for them then that is where they are, if people are equipped with a spiritual filter too that’s where they are.

I think you do fundamentally know this which is why you always appear on these threads.

have-jews-believed-that-ezra-was-the-son-of-god?have-jews-believed-that-ezra-was-the-son-of-god?have-jews-believed-that-ezra-was-the-son-of-god?have-jews-believed-that-ezra-was-the-son-of-god?

@Feelingathomenow , Why should I spend my valuable time reading different versions of bibles which Christians themselves can't agree upon and yet is said to contain the word of God but has been inspired by God to be written down by unknown authors who never lived or met Jesus?

What? How does that even make any sense?

If the belief system is so convoluted to understand without tieing oneself in a bind then that cannot be from God.

Any person or being on earth claiming to be God, is not God and cannot be God.

Sigh, at no point have I said that Islamic philosophy did not have any impact of Jewish thought. All Abrahamic religions have impacted each other. Gnostic Christianity also helped shape Islam. We can discuss this very seperate point if you like. I was questioning the specific point you raised about whether Jews believe Ezra was the Son of God. You simply can’t admit you were wrong. You instead back track. You were the one who brought this up. If anyone is trying diversionary tactics it is you. It was so clearly not a typo, I’ve asked you several times over days to clarify this yet only now say it was a typo.

Looks an interesting, if slightly biased, article, thanks I will read it in full later I’m quite interested in the Aristotelian thought that ran through most of medieval philosophy, interesting how the Greek world continues to permeate through the Middle East over 1500 years after the conquering by Alexander. We see it reflected all over during this period inc in the Tales of Arthur. - in fact I was listening to a talk not long ago with someone actually researching this for their PhD.

But I still can’t see this answering my question

Well I guess there is dissent in all walks of life. You can see disagreements in Judaism, Islam and Christianity. Which don’t subscribe to string theory or quantum loop theory?

If you want to understand something about Christianity though you would need to go back to the Bible I’m afraid. Christianity is a very straightforward belief system, some points of doctrine differ, but all fairly easy to understand and don’t require “tying yourself I do a bind” if you let me know which ones you’re struggling with I can help.

if you’re worried about “wasting your time” you presumably have a purpose in dedicating so much time to this thread. What is that purpose.

On what basis to you say “any person or being on earth claiming to before is not God and cannot be God”?

@Feelingathomenow Let's stop here, nothing beneficial will come out of it other than wasting precious time.

P.s. you big up Moses Maimonides but when I pointed out that he was born and educated in the Muslim land and educated at Islamic institutions and served one of the greatest Muslim general, you seem to brush aside as it seems biased you?

What?

Do you have any sense?

The source is an world renowned global institution peer revised academic article written by scholars and you question it as biased?

You seem a person who cannot admit their own fallacy even if it's handed on a plate to you.

Your preconceived notions clouds your objectivity and understanding.

Adious.

Thank you for your contribution and Goodbye.

I’m not brushing aside anything, I said it was an interesting article I will read later. The article clearly had an angle, all academic articles have - you clearly have little experience reading academic articles.

I throughly agree that Middle Eastern philosophy was heavily influenced by Aristotle and as I said we could see this throughout the Middle Ages - even as far as France and England . It’s a fascinating area of its own seeing switches between the primary influence being between Plato and Aristotle. From skimming article this seems to be a theme here too so I look forward to reading it.

Sorry you only now realise you’re wasting your time (although I hope you have learned something). A word to the wise though, you seem to have slipped into ad hominem territory on several occasions which isn’t very Aristotelian.

Hope you have a great Christmas

PS you still haven’t answered my question about which prominent Jewish scholars I should be speaking with re your “some” Jews believe Ezra was Gods Son.

Do that thread of random people saying no, this is not part of Jewish thought, someone links a Rabbi saying there’s a possibility that some Jews thousands of years ago might have thought Ezra was Gods son - no link to this though. So, as I said you might find some “crazies” to quote who think the world is flat in the scientific world too. You really are desperately googling to find some substance to your back tracked comment. I literally can’t stop laughing.

Just a question- how recently did you convert (or as you would probably say revert) to Islam?