If someone claimed to be the Son of God today…

[Nutcracks]

If someone claimed today all the things that Jesus did/said, would you believe them?

Curious about how people would respond in today’s world.

@AgileGreenSeal

I don’t see anything cruel or hateful there.

Telling, for example, an 18 year old who has been abused every day for their entire life that if they don't believe Jesus is their saviour by the time they die, they will experience eternal damnation and a 'lake of fire' seems a pretty cruel belief system to me. You really can't see that?

Oh I 100% the power of physics in the physical world, but we’re talking the spiritual not physical world.

But Jesus just didn't come out of nowhere and he say he was the son of God. He preached regularly, traveled with the disciples to spread the word. He was very outspoken.

He ministered to the dying, helped people, prayed for people (and in so doing, performed miracles).

Word would have spread about him, just like it would today.

It’s not part of my belief system - but I agree why is this a cruel belief system? Iike most religious systems its a system of rules and consequences. Ending up in hell is not inevitable (unless you subscribe to double predestination) play by the rules and you’ll be fine.

Secular rules are no different often a system of arbitrary rules, many of which are unfair on an individual level but a mechanism to ensure a functioning society

@Feelingathomenow

It’s not part of my belief system - but I agree why is this a cruel belief system?

I don't mean this in an accusatory way but if you don't think that the situation I outlined as an example is cruel then I'm unsure how to get on the same page as you.

I think that damning an 18 year old eternally / sending them to a 'lake of fire' for not believing your son is their saviour would be cruel when they are a victim of abuse and haven't even had the chance of an adult life during which they could discover religion.

I think it would be even more cruel and spiteful of a supposedly all powerful, all knowing god to do condemn the 18 year old when they chose not to intervene and prevent the abuse.

Hell only exists as a punishment if you believe in it and have that threat held over you.

Live life as a decent person without the shackles of religion and life is good!

I doubt you are on the same page as me! Do you think it’s cruel that the world is set up so people feel like their lives are worthless because the can’t afford the latest stuff, or they have failed because they can’t give their kids material
items. Do you criticise capitalism? What about those who break the law and steal? What if the steal to give their kid something not to miss out?

is it cruel an 18 year old has his life destroyed because he wasn’t experienced and misjudged stopping distance and knocked over an old lady:

He’s chosen to make His salvation an individual, person-by-person rescue, by faith.

If He revealed Himself at this point in history undeniably to all of humanity then there would be no need of faith.

He will reveal Himself undeniably to all of humanity at His return.

An example - DH is a doctor, he’s a good person in his job and in life. My friend is an accountant - good in how they perform their job and how they live their life. Neither are religious. They are good people not specifically from their job but how they treat others and live their lives.

Everyone is estranged from God and needs forgiveness. Everyone.

Everyone can become reconciled to Him and be forgiven.

The offer is open to everyone as a gift of grace. Those who reject the offer have made their choice.

There’s no compulsion to receive the gift.

I can’t see cruelty in that, since there’s absolutely no exclusions, no one will be turned away who accepts the undeserved grace which is offered to them.

It’s cruel when the threat is do as I say or you’ll go to hell. It’s a control mechanism

@Feelingathomenow

I doubt you are on the same page as me! Do you think it’s cruel that the world is set up so people feel like their lives are worthless because the can’t afford the latest stuff, or they have failed because they can’t give their kids material items.

Yes.

Do you criticise capitalism?

Yes.

What about those who break the law and steal? What if the steal to give their kid something not to miss out?

There are grey areas in life (if you aren't living by strict religious doctrine without nuance) and I think that if you're stealing a toy for your child that's very different to stealing milk so that they can eat, for example. The latter I would not judge someone for if they have no other way to feed their child. I judge the societal framework that creates that situation.

is it cruel an 18 year old has his life destroyed because he wasn’t experienced and misjudged stopping distance and knocked over an old lady.

Yes if he misjudged (rather than carelessly or recklessly speeding) of course I would think my goodness, what a cruel world. For him and for the victim.

I don't understand how these examples would make it any less valid that I believe a god is cruel if he would condemn an abuse victim to eternal damnation and a 'lake of fire' if they have otherwise tried to be a kind and loving person.

It’s a rescue mission.

if you’re on a sinking ship and someone offers you a place in a lifeboat is that a “control mechanism”?

They won’t force you to get in, but if you don’t who do you blame when the ship goes down and you drown?

“' if they have otherwise tried to be a kind and loving person.”

Your problem with understanding the Gospel of Jesus Christ is that you see a person’s salvation as depending on their attempts at good works.

But all that is necessary is faith.

Salvation is a gift. Not a reward.
No one earns salvation.

We have evidence of how we'd treat someone claiming to be the son of god because several people have already claimed that. It's generally a good sign that they're experiencing mental illness

but if you did follow : If they live by all the teachings of god
and followed the old testament then it would be omg
so if you follow the new latest version then its all written for the modern follower for the modern society so where was god when this versions was written

That would depend if the person offering the lifeboat was also the one who pressganged me, whipped up the storm and scuppered the ship.

there in is the pickle, of believing and saying your x, if people can say god accepts you, then why cannot people say i am the son of god without the people and psychologists etc wanting to give you treatment ?

basically problem, reaction, solution all by the same deity, with the illusion of freewill

@AgileGreenSeal

Your problem with understanding the Gospel of Jesus Christ is that you see a person’s salvation as depending on their attempts at good works.

No, I completely understand that is the principle. I went to a religious school and grew in the catholic church.

I'm saying I believe that a god who bases salvation on that principle would be, in my option, a cruel one.

I understand you disagree, but that is my belief.

I'd think he was mentally unwell

What makes them “good people”?

well they are not Genghis khan ?

They are good by their actions in work and life - help people, trustworthy, kind and loving. DH is pretty much perfect!

So what are you doing to overcome capitalism? What I’m getting at with those examples is that the secular laws are just as cruel as religious ones