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Philosophy/religion

Join our Philosophy forum to discuss religion and spirituality.

If someone claimed to be the Son of God today…

581 replies

Nutcracks · 13/12/2024 22:46

If someone claimed today all the things that Jesus did/said, would you believe them?

Curious about how people would respond in today’s world.

OP posts:
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Feelingathomenow · 21/12/2024 15:45

DarkAether · 21/12/2024 15:41

well they are not Genghis khan ?

So if someone isn’t Ghengis Khan they're good?

Feelingathomenow · 21/12/2024 15:46

Parker231 · 21/12/2024 14:12

Hell only exists as a punishment if you believe in it and have that threat held over you.

Live life as a decent person without the shackles of religion and life is good!

So it’s not really cruel to say if you believe in Jesus and also hell and the belief in Jesus will save you

DarkAether · 21/12/2024 15:46

Feelingathomenow · 21/12/2024 15:45

So if someone isn’t Ghengis Khan they're good?

there are many comparisons that could be made, this was just one example

Feelingathomenow · 21/12/2024 15:48

DarkAether · 21/12/2024 10:15

Chances are God is E.T

Might well be or an inter dimensional being travelling through multiverse. What’s your point?

Garlicwest · 21/12/2024 15:49

Parker231 · 21/12/2024 07:28

I’ve never read the Bible - I doubt many atheists have. Some was covered during school along with other religions. I’m interested in facts which are questionable in the bible

I've read it all the way through three times, starting as a schoolgirl. I've also read many commentaries, I follow up when I hear of fresh discoveries, and I look into the wider social and political contexts. I am an atheist.

I can't be bothered to dispute the multiple inaccuracies and no-sequiturs in these posts by devoted Christians - long experience tells me they get hurt & angry, and I'm not trying to 'evangelise' atheism. Believe what you like, but only as far as your faiths don't aspire to control the beliefs and actions of other people.

you're an atheist, why are you even on this board?

Although we live in a secular society, our culture's saturated with christianity. We have to know a fair bit about it if we want to understand our own world. There's also the inescapable fact that wars are still being fought, cruelties enacted and atrocities committed in the names of various religions. No rational person could pretend doesn't matter. Therefore it makes sense to discuss it.

It is well known that nothing ever was written down at the life time of Jesus

This is the bit I find absolutely hilarious! This world-changing preacher posed such an existential threat to the Romans and Pharisees/Sadducees that they conspired to hold a show trial and execution. The Romans wrote everything down, from tax records and requisition lists to military updates and political commentary.

The Sadducees wrote a lot, too, but their records seem to have been destroyed in the various sackings of Jerusalem. The Romans, by contrast, had an efficient international postal service. Yet not a single word of anything to do with this troublesome preacher was written for fifty (ish) years after his death, when a flood of 'witness' accounts suddenly began? Yeah. Nah.

Josephus was a two-faced military politician, utterly selfish and with a good eye for the main chance. He mentioned Jesus in passing, a century after the supposed crucifixion. The gospel of Mark is not believed to have been written by that Mark, and probably post-dates Josephus.

But it's all quite interesting as a live example of how religions are built (and why), what they tell us about human power games and the 'need to believe'.

whathaveiforgotten · 21/12/2024 15:50

@Feelingathomenow

What I’m getting at with those examples is that the secular laws are just as cruel as religious ones

So you do think that both can be cruel?

DarkAether · 21/12/2024 15:50

Feelingathomenow · 21/12/2024 15:48

Might well be or an inter dimensional being travelling through multiverse. What’s your point?

that at least its a bit more believable that god is an alien, as im inspired by the show stargate sg1, however also in the show is about not following texts that lead to the worship of false gods, as many beings wrote their own codes or books etc for different worlds of different civilisation's to believe in

Feelingathomenow · 21/12/2024 15:51

DarkAether · 21/12/2024 15:46

there are many comparisons that could be made, this was just one example

But that’s not really a definition. How do you actively define a good person - is this subjective or objective. Where do the competitors come from? Was ghengis Khan a good person in anyone’s eyes?

Garlicwest · 21/12/2024 15:51

Feelingathomenow · 21/12/2024 15:45

So if someone isn’t Ghengis Khan they're good?

Well, he did claim to be a Son of the Sky (God), in the tradition of Eurasian Steppe leaders.

Parker231 · 21/12/2024 15:52

Feelingathomenow · 21/12/2024 15:51

But that’s not really a definition. How do you actively define a good person - is this subjective or objective. Where do the competitors come from? Was ghengis Khan a good person in anyone’s eyes?

To my standards they are good people.

Feelingathomenow · 21/12/2024 15:52

DarkAether · 21/12/2024 15:50

that at least its a bit more believable that god is an alien, as im inspired by the show stargate sg1, however also in the show is about not following texts that lead to the worship of false gods, as many beings wrote their own codes or books etc for different worlds of different civilisation's to believe in

Most holy books can be read exotericallly or esoterically. Most religions say the say thing.

DarkAether · 21/12/2024 15:55

Feelingathomenow · 21/12/2024 15:52

Most holy books can be read exotericallly or esoterically. Most religions say the say thing.

how ever its spun, overall all texts are human made and basically fruit from the poison tree, ergo humanity wrote them all, and humanity cannot also be trusted, therefore why do people believe in books that lead to the worship of false gods that were created by other humans ?

Feelingathomenow · 21/12/2024 15:56

Parker231 · 21/12/2024 15:52

To my standards they are good people.

So it’s subjective. I might meet your DH and think he’s a total wanker ( you say he’s a doctor so ime will certainly have an ego problem) so he’s not a “good person” your perception of him is that he is a good person based on your own values.

Feelingathomenow · 21/12/2024 15:57

DarkAether · 21/12/2024 15:55

how ever its spun, overall all texts are human made and basically fruit from the poison tree, ergo humanity wrote them all, and humanity cannot also be trusted, therefore why do people believe in books that lead to the worship of false gods that were created by other humans ?

But the. You end up discussing what is imagination and creativity?

Feelingathomenow · 21/12/2024 15:58

Garlicwest · 21/12/2024 15:51

Well, he did claim to be a Son of the Sky (God), in the tradition of Eurasian Steppe leaders.

And, what’s your point?

Parker231 · 21/12/2024 16:03

Feelingathomenow · 21/12/2024 15:56

So it’s subjective. I might meet your DH and think he’s a total wanker ( you say he’s a doctor so ime will certainly have an ego problem) so he’s not a “good person” your perception of him is that he is a good person based on your own values.

He’s total ego free. Who else’s opinion matters? Family - first and then friends and his patients in a professional setting. He ticks all the boxes.

BettyBardMacDonald · 21/12/2024 16:06

Tristar15 · 14/12/2024 03:39

Of course not. Jesus wasn’t the son of God either because God doesn’t exist.

Exactly.

According to objective historians, Jesus didn't exist either. The mythology of an itinerant, persecuted preacher is a lot older than 2,000 years.

Feelingathomenow · 21/12/2024 16:08

whathaveiforgotten · 21/12/2024 15:50

@Feelingathomenow

What I’m getting at with those examples is that the secular laws are just as cruel as religious ones

So you do think that both can be cruel?

I think “cruelty” in these circumstances is subjective what can be cruel in one persons eyes can be justice and love in another’s.

Feelingathomenow · 21/12/2024 16:08

BettyBardMacDonald · 21/12/2024 16:06

Exactly.

According to objective historians, Jesus didn't exist either. The mythology of an itinerant, persecuted preacher is a lot older than 2,000 years.

Mmm I think your certainty is misplaced.

whathaveiforgotten · 21/12/2024 16:09

@Feelingathomenow

you say he’s a doctor so ime will certainly have an ego problem

Saying things like this about a stranger is very judgemental. Letting yourself down if you're meant to live by the Christian faith, surely?

“Do not judge, or you too will be judged” (Matthew 7:1).

"But if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge. There is only one lawgiver and judge, he who is able to save and to destroy. But who are you to judge your neighbor?” (James 4:11-12)

whathaveiforgotten · 21/12/2024 16:11

@Feelingathomenow

I think “cruelty” in these circumstances is subjective what can be cruel in one persons eyes can be justice and love in another’s.

I agree it's subjective, never said otherwise.

Feelingathomenow · 21/12/2024 16:12

Parker231 · 21/12/2024 16:03

He’s total ego free. Who else’s opinion matters? Family - first and then friends and his patients in a professional setting. He ticks all the boxes.

Ah so you blindly worship him because you love him and don’t think he can put a foot wrong? I’m sure he’s not “ego free” you need a. Ego to operate in this world. I can 100% guarantee at some point someone has thought “what a tosser” or “I don’t like that man” .

Feelingathomenow · 21/12/2024 16:13

whathaveiforgotten · 21/12/2024 16:11

@Feelingathomenow

I think “cruelty” in these circumstances is subjective what can be cruel in one persons eyes can be justice and love in another’s.

I agree it's subjective, never said otherwise.

So therefore your question is unanswerable

Sunnyflow · 21/12/2024 16:16

It’s cruel when the threat is do as I say or you’ll go to hell. It’s a control mechanism

This

whathaveiforgotten · 21/12/2024 16:17

@Feelingathomenow

So therefore your question is unanswerable

Huh? I asked if you think both things are cruel.

The fact is that opinions are subjective doesn't make the question unanswerable. It just means the answers will be subjective 🤷🏻‍♀️