If someone claimed to be the Son of God today…

[Nutcracks]

If someone claimed today all the things that Jesus did/said, would you believe them?

Curious about how people would respond in today’s world.

So this is going to become a circular argument. You need to read the Bible in order to know what you are discussing. No, I won't read the Bible because it's not first hand.

If you read it you might arrive at a different conclusion - what are you afraid of, that you might actually change your mind?

Certain biblical comments are blatantly false - Virgin birth, walk on water etc. It’s crying wolf to claim it’s the truth.

Right, so you're an atheist, why are you even on this board? I'd have thought you'd leave us deluded people to just get on with it? Instead you're here, persistently here, not just one or two comments in passing. Why? Makes me think a little voice inside you is more interested in having faith in God than you think. It's OK, you wouldn't be the first to argue your way to belief. I've seen it happen before, weeks of arguing and protesting about everything, only for one day the glorious light shines.

If those comments are so 'blatantly false' (I suspect because of science, right? Impossible to walk on a fluid? Impossible to conceive without an actual sperm?) Did you ever think we're dealing with God who created the whole universe, its physics and maths and biology. He is able to do those things in an instant. Just because we humans don't understand how it's done doesn't mean it's impossible and can't be true. The precision of the Universe is one of the reasons I believe, it's so intricate and wonderfully designed, we haven't even scratched the surface of how it all works, yet humans arrogantly claim 'we know this isn't possible because of science'. My turn to laugh now!

Chances are God is E.T

Personally I prefer the idea of god to be the anicents from the stargate series,

Chances are God is E.T

At least that's a step better than there is no God at all - at least that view would admit intelligent design.

The perspective and (false) rhetoric they’re using is certainly one that is commonly seen is Islamic circles. The claim that Jews worship Ezra stems from a quote from the Quran that actually doesn’t un categorically state that. Worryingly it’s a narrative they don’t want to question, even making false claims that many prominent Jewish scholars agreed with the position (which they don’t and @KnowThatIKnowNot had repeatedly failed to substantiate this). I have no doubt that they either fully believe this or are sticking to that narrative for dubious reasons. But either way they don’t appear to be particularly knowledgeable about any religion and lack the curiosity to be any type of serious scholar.

it’s a pity that we don’t have any Muslim scholars on here who can seriously engage in discussions I would actually like to learn some more, but they need to be able to at least have some appreciation of the actual beliefs of others

@AgileGreenSeal

It will be so evident to all what is happening, people will be terrified, hide and mourn.

The terrified ones will be those who aren’t His children- the ones who rejected Him, choosing instead to live in rebellion to Him and realise that they are going to be held accountable.

I can't imagine praising such a cruel and hateful figure tbh.

@AlteredStater

It's simple: If you have accepted Jesus as your Saviour and repent of your sins, and therefore are reconciled with God, you will be saved.

None of us, repeat NONE, have lived perfectly and sinlessly. God will only accept perfection.

If you are someone who has been 'very bad' and yet you have sincerely repented, you will be saved.

So paedophiles who rape and murder children but are sincerely sorry will go to heaven but a charity worker and carer who spends their entire life putting others first, being kind, gentle and loving but doesn't believe in god or accept Jesus as their saviour... would be damned?

Again, how can you worship such a cruel figure? It baffles me.

@AlteredStater

Let me ask you, then. Do you have empathy for Jimmy Savile? For Myra Hindley? For Hitler? Look back in the history books for Amelia Dyer. Harold Shipman? Because I don't.

If all of those people had, on their deathbed, been sincerely sorry and accepted Jesus as their saviour, do you believe they would be welcomed with love into eternal heaven by the god you worship?

I can’t imagine why anyone would want to be ‘saved’ (from what?) by such a cruel character

Because salvation isn't based on works. You can do as many good works as you want but in God's eyes, because you aren't right with him as you are a sinful human (because of the Fall) then any works you do are tainted and so not acceptable. Otherwise it would become a competition as to how many good works you could do to earn favour with God. I actually prefer it this way, you are saved by faith alone.

Yes if a paedophile truly repents they will be saved. However I doubt many who've raped and murdered actually do. The kind charity worker is still a sinful human. They cannot be saved on their works, only by faith.

I don't see God as cruel at all, in fact I see Him as a loving Father. He has accepted me as his daughter despite the fact that I am a horrible, fallen human. I am humbled every day realising this. He didn't have to send his Son to die for me but He did. As a result I will have eternal life and dwell in God's Kingdom forever. This is a gift available to all.

If you could be saved by good works alone, then there would be no need for Jesus to have come and died. It would be pointless.

The terrified ones will be those who aren’t His children- the ones who rejected Him, choosing instead to live in rebellion to Him and realise that they are going to be held accountable.

Also those people will bear the mark of the Beast which will eternally damn them, as they chose to take it. We don't know yet what it will be, but I said it before, I will have no sympathy for anyone who has done that.

A charity worker is not a sinful person - they are a good person and we all should recognise and respect them. They are better than most people who worship a god.

@AlteredStater

He has accepted me as his daughter despite the fact that I am a horrible, fallen human.

The way you describe yourself on this thread, including the above, makes me feel really sad for you. It's awful. Such self loathing despite believing you have a relationship with a god who loves you. You deserve to feel like a kind, good person if you live a kind, good life. Hearing you speak so terribly about yourself is unsettling.

Another thing I don't understand is that if you believe so much in your god and have such clarity on his expectations and standards for you then why do you continue sinning? Surely it's worse that you are a believer but don't act exactly how he commands than it is for someone who doesn't believe at all? Why isn't his love, and the fear of eternal damnation, enough to keep you 'in line' so to speak?

@AlteredStater
It's quite concerning your interpretation of God, which religion do you follow that says people are sinners and fallen even good people like charity workers, that the only worth is if you believe.
It does not sound like a loving caring religion, I'd be very concerned for your MH if I knew you.

Love how you state things as fact even though impossible and with zero evidence . As far as the virgin birth, perhaps you missed the biology class at school or physics class for walking on water?

@AlteredStater

The kind charity worker is still a sinful human. They cannot be saved on their works, only by faith.

If they live by all the teachings of god and adhere to all his standards (so are for example always kind, remain celibate as they never marry, never harm others, never steal, always help those in need, never boast, remain humble etc etc) but do not believe Jesus is their saviour, they will still be sent to a lake of fire and be eternally damned.

What harm has that person done to anyone else or to the world, that could possibly deserve eternal damnation? Unless you can specify the harm they have done in their life, their eternal damnation is simply god's ego driving him to punish them for not believing in him. Can you see this?

What an egotistical and spiteful entity. How can you call such an entity loving? I find it impossible to reconcile your belief that charity worker is damned with your belief god is loving and kind.

Ho odd that you define someone as good or bad by their job!!

I don't have self-loathing. I simply recognise what I was before I became a Christian. Someone separated from God, someone who could never please Him as I was no matter what good works I thought I was doing. I am far more at peace with myself now and have truly accepted the God has forgiven me for all my sins. I've an assured place in God's Kingdom.

As for the continuing to sin, I still live in a sinful body. It won't become an eternal body until Christ returns and it will change in an instant. Of course I do my best to resist sinning with the help of the Holy Spirit and indeed I am free of some sins thanks to the Holy Spirit, but I am a 'work in progress' as are all Christians. When I sin, I repent of it and am forgiven.

You're also not including the work of Satan and his demons who constantly tempt and taunt humanity in order to get them to sin and fall away from God.

The illustration you give of a perfect kind, good charity worker isn't reality. There is no-one who is perfect, they don't exist. It's at odds with our sinful nature. Go and find me one perfect person.

I think this page gives a very good summary of our sinful nature

https://www.gotquestions.org/sin-nature.html

Unless you can specify the harm they have done in their life, their eternal damnation is simply god's ego driving him to punish them for not believing in him. Can you see this?

Specify the harm done? In countless ways we hurt others. Look back over your own life, honestly. Have you never hurt anyone? Either by saying/doing something you regret or failing to do something you should have done?

People can believe in God and still end up being sent to eternal damnation. It's belief in his Son, Jesus Christ, that is the key, and acceptance that He died for your sins.

If you go by works alone, then at what point should someone be saved? What crime is so bad that you cannot enter Heaven? I'm sure you can think of many. What about lesser crimes? Where do you draw the line, how do you balance the good deeds versus the bad deeds? I think that would be a very unclear and poor system.

Oh come on. How many times -why do you think God is bound by physical laws - you really can’t get your head round this no matter how many times we discuss it.

Why is something impossible!

Ah messiah syndrome. No I 100% wouldn't.

and you can’t accept the power of physics

you say

“I can't imagine praising such a cruel and hateful figure tbh.”

Here’s what Biblical Christianity teaches-

All people are sinful, are estranged from God and cannot, by their own effort, enter Heaven, His home.

God loves people and wants them to be with Him so, at great personal cost to Himself, He made a particular way for them to be forgiven from their sins and to enter into a relationship with Him, therefore being accepted into Heaven, His home.

This is what’s meant by salvation.

Salvation is offered freely to all people as an undeserved gift of God’s grace. It can only be received as a gift. It can’t be earned. The way to receive this gift is by faith in God, specifically in Jesus Christ whose life, death and resurrection was the way God made for our salvation.

People who have received the gift have been forgiven, and have become God’s children.

People who have chosen to reject the gift remain unforgiven and estranged from God.

Personally, as an undeserving recipient of His gift of grace, I see this God as absolutely worthy of praise, love, worship and thanks both for who He intrinsically is and for what He has done.

I don’t see anything cruel or hateful there.
I see a loving God doing everything that is necessary, at His own expense, to offer rescue to all.

IMO the NIV-UK is the best compromise between readability/comprehensibility, poetry and accuracy.

— an atheist who's read the whole Bible, in GNB (as a kid), KJV (1611, original spelling), and NIV-UK formats. Also parts of Douay–Rheims, Tyndale, Wycliffe etc., some fragments in Old English, and parts of a few other modern translations (e.g. ESV or NRSV, occasionally an interactive interlinear translation, and for a laugh, the odd bit of Living ("At the place where the road passes some sheepfolds, Saul went into a cave to go to the bathroom")).

@AgileGreenSeal

God loves people and wants them to be with Him so, at great personal cost to Himself, He made a particular way for them to be forgiven from their sins and to enter into a relationship with Him, therefore being accepted into Heaven, His home.

Why does he not show himself undeniably to humanity then? Why doesn't he want to save everyone enough to show himself undeniably, if he loves people and wants them with him? What would be the downside for him in doing so?