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Philosophy/religion

Join our Philosophy forum to discuss religion and spirituality.

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Original poster

I go to church, but can't help beleiving that it is much more likely that Jesus was a mere mortal......

56 replies

northerner · 20/11/2006 10:03

Just seems more liekly to me imo.

I do enjoy gping to church, I like the people, I like the morals in will instill into my ds who enjoys Sunday School, I like the whole church ethos. Just think Jesus was a mortal man like any other who just happened to preach goodness.

With this in mind, is there still a place for me in a place of worship?

Just looking for opinions, lets not get heated

OP posts:

bloss · 20/11/2006 11:20

Message withdrawn

KathyMCMLXXII · 20/11/2006 11:23

Can't you take it all on a very very metaphorical level? If you mentally redefine God as a metaphor for 'goodness' rather than a sort of person in the sky who made the world, you can probably stretch to agreeing with a lot more of it

Original poster

northerner · 20/11/2006 11:26

Hmmmm, well if I think Jesus was mortal, then I don't beleive in God do I? Which is the very foundation of christianity.

Oh this is too deep for a Monday morning!

OP posts:

nearlythree · 20/11/2006 12:27

Yes, there is. Read anything by John Spong, Marcus Borg and Hilary Wakeman. You will find their books (esp. Borg's) a blessed relief. Start with his one about meeting Jesus. They are all on Amazon. I feel similarly and will be happy to chat if you want to CAT me.

Original poster

northerner · 20/11/2006 16:02

Thanks nearlythree, I will look for those on amazon.

OP posts:

MaryBS · 20/11/2006 16:56

I think you can believe in God without believing Jesus is God too. If you're happy about going to church then I'd keep going. Might be worth raising with the vicar/priest/minister see what they say in terms of what they believe and why they believe. Could prove to be very interesting!

morningpaper · 20/11/2006 17:01

I'm sure that half the congregation feel like you most of them time

I agree with Bloss - if you like it, keep going.

PeachyClair · 20/11/2006 17:06

You CAN believe in God without believing jesus is immortal, many Christians are not trinitarians at all and believe that Jesus was not Divine. It's afctually quite an area of theological debate, but you are certainly not alone in this view- I know several Christians who share it (and who also struggle with Church, it has to be said)

Ever fancied the Quakers? They'd be more than happy with your Faith.

nearlythree · 20/11/2006 21:05

Or the Unitarians?

Kelly1978 · 20/11/2006 21:08

I personally belive god is goodness and many people have embodied that and so been worshipped as gods. Not very christian, btu I'm comign from a slightly differednt viewpoint. I think you need to think a little more about what you do believe and concentrate on that rather than trying to fit into one organised religion.

bubble99 · 20/11/2006 21:18

I think Jesus would be chuffed to be described as a 'mere mortal.' He was, after all, a rabbi who broke away from his own faith. I think that the essence of his teachings were intended to appeal to 'the common man.'

The pomp and finery of the high churches would probably P him off if he was around to see them today, IMO.

morningpaper · 20/11/2006 21:22

I actually think that it doesn't matter a great deal WHAT you believe, as long as you feel at home in your worshipping environment and you feel that it is helpful in giving you time to pursue spiritual growth

I know I am very wooly beardy type Anglican

bubble99 · 20/11/2006 21:25

Fancy a tankard of real ale, MP?

nearlythree · 20/11/2006 21:26

I left the Anglican church because whatever it stands for, it doesn't reflect the Kingdom values that Jesus teaches, particularly in my village. I now worship with the evangelical Baptist church and love it, even though theologically we are very far apart.

soph28 · 20/11/2006 21:32

you can believe in God without believing in Jesus- it's called Judaism. You can't be a Christian and not believe in Jesus- it's absolutely central to the Christian faith that you believe Jesus is the Son of God and that He died and rose again to forgive your sins.
There is a place in Church for anyone who wants to be there regardless of what they do or don't believe and if you aren't made to feel welcome in your church you should find a more accepting one.

nearlythree · 20/11/2006 21:37

But if you asked me 'do you believe in Jesus? ' I'd say yes, totally, following him is the only way to live as far as I'm concerned. But then if you asked me 'and who was Jesus?' I'd have to say I don't know, because I don't.

bubble99 · 20/11/2006 21:38

Evangelical Christianity has done a lot, IMO, to inspire a new generation of Christians. I heard someone say that Jesus proclaimed his message passionately on mountainsides to people who risked their lives to hear that message. Nearly two thousand years later that message had been reduced to being whispered in drafty half-empty churches to a handful of an aging population.

Anything charismatic has to be good as long as (and this is my only worry with evangelical preachers) the message remains the focal point and not the ego and personality of those delivering it.

soph28 · 20/11/2006 21:52

Bubble99 if someone asked me 'and who was Jesus?' I would know because he is my best friend, he's with me all the time, I trust him with my life. I know who he is because I do have a meaningful relationship with him. I know this sounds really weird to a lot of people but that's how it is for me.

soph28 · 20/11/2006 21:53

sorry that was for nearlythree!

morningpaper · 20/11/2006 22:01

"I heard someone say that Jesus proclaimed his message passionately on mountainsides to people who risked their lives to hear that message."

Hmm not strictly true - there were loads of itinerant preachers and plenty of people listening to them without endangering themselves

Things only got dicey after Jesus's death

"Bubble99 if someone asked me 'and who was Jesus?' I would know because he is my best friend, he's with me all the time, I trust him with my life. I know who he is because I do have a meaningful relationship with him. I know this sounds really weird to a lot of people but that's how it is for me"

Sounds really weird to plenty of people who are Christians too.

bubble99 · 20/11/2006 22:04

But MP, surely he became a 'radical' in his own lifetime?

nearlythree. Weird but not weird, IYSWIM. In a sense you are best friends with everything he stands for, his essence. That's lovely.

bubble99 · 20/11/2006 22:04

And 'a radical with clout?'

morningpaper · 20/11/2006 22:07

Well yes he obviously pissed people off, but to be honest no one is QUITE sure why. It is a bit odd.

But being a follower of Jesus wasn't particularly hazardous at the time.

soph28 · 20/11/2006 22:20

mp why does that sound weird to you if you are a Christian? I'm sorry I don't understand that?

nearlythree · 20/11/2006 22:21

soph, what I mean is, that I don't know if Jesus was divine or not. I have him in my life in a way I can't define, his teachings speak to me in a way nothing else does and I pray to him often. But what that means as to the Virgin Birth and all the rest of it I have no idea.

I used to think I knew, oh yes. I spent 18 mo studying the Bishops' Course in our diocese, and we all thought we knew who Jesus was, what the Creed meant etxc, except for one guy. He said that his favourite text was Paul :'Now I see through a glass darkly' etc. I never thought I'd end up seeing the same way but I have. I often think of that gentle, humble man with gratitude - he was a churchwarden and a lord, no less - because if he can hang on, then so can I, in the belief that one day the glass will become clear, even though it won't be in this life.

MP, I think that Jesus knew full well he was going to be killed when he started out on his ministry. I think he was pretty radical actually and I am so pissed off that various traditions have turned him into a bloke in a nightie (guess Holman Hunt is to blame the most though!).

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