I'm quite glad to see the Easter eggs in the shops

[marmitecat]

Although I felt a bit sniffy about the chocolate santas in September I had a ponder about the Creme eggs before epiphany and concluded that the new life at Easter is what makes Christ's birth meaningful. And He was brought Myrhh which is also Eastery. So it's probably not too early. Just a random thought.

But Easter is a much older festival than that.
Important since Neolitic times, eggs- bunies are all symbols of new life and fecundity. It's nice that chistians want to join in the fun but they can't lay claim to one of the oldest pagan festivals.

Yes

Yes, I know about the worship of the goddess Aostre and I don't have a problem with the timing of Christian festivals falling in line with those of older religions. The origin of the egg in Easter celebrations can also be attributed to its use in the Passover feast.

Happy New Year.

One of the things I really appreciate about my current church is that we have a large cross behind the altar so when we have the crib set up under the altar I have both Christmas and Easter together. We are still finishing up the Christmas chocolate so I can't face any Easter eggs but I see your point maramitecat

Back to work tomorrow and starting to plan Easter!

Happy New Year.

OK this is confusing me.
Christmas isn't over yet, I would have thought the Christians would still be celebrating Christmas not looking forward to Easter.

I don't think that's quite the point marmitecat is making, sashh. It's rather that the thing that makes Christmas meaningful is Easter. Easter is the most important Christian festival (yes, and I appreciate the fact that early Christians incorporated pagan festivals into theirs, which, and especially in the case of Easter, were also built on the foundations of Jewish festivals). Christians are Easter people, not Christmas people.

Although we don't get Easter without Christmas. The Incarnation is quite important!

yes, you are right of course!

I understand that Easter is the main Christian celebration (and frequently have to point this out to teenagers) and you can't have Christianity without Easter.

What I meant was that Christmas actually lasts 12 days, but people who only celebrate it as a secular event only celebrate 2 days. I would have though Christians would celebrate the 12 days in some way before looking forward to the next festival.

" but people who only celebrate it as a secular event only celebrate 2 days"

What rubbish- many non religious people have their tree up weeks before christmas.
Our christmas festivities start early December, we make, craft, bake, make christmas gifts and cakes, decorations, have christmas activities and outings, write letters to Santa, go see pantos and christmas lights, visit friends and do special things.
All this happens for 4 weeks or so - I don't know here you get the idea that those of us who enjoy a secular christmas only have two days of celebrations.

What Sashh is referring to isn't the general festivities that people engage in at and around Christmas. From a religious perspective, Christmas runs from the night between 24 and 25 December (Jesus' birth) to 6 January (Epiphany when the wise men came to give their gifts of myrrh, gold and incence to baby Jesus). In between, there are also days that celebrate or mark the slaughter of babies in Bethlehem on Herode's command (26th December) and Jesus' circumcision (in accordance with Jewish law, 8 days after his birth, i.e. 1 January.) Incidentally, this is the actual reason why New Year's Day is a public holiday, not to allow people to nurse sore heads. In this country most of these other days are not marked in particular even by the religious community. However, Epiphany is still public holiday in many European countries and is still celebrated as part of Christmas with special church services, and Boxing Day has a subtitle of "the Helpless Children's day" in calendars in other languages.

Who are you to judge what determines christmas celebrations! Jesus may be part of your idea of christmas- but it isn't mine.

Is a secular celebration includes visits to the panto or to see santa in his grotto then that's up to us. The church can butt out.

It's only relatively recently the church lifted the 400 year ban on christmas in scotland- so i don't see why they should be laying claim to a predominantly secular festival which is deeply rooted in paganism.

I don't know here you get the idea that those of us who enjoy a secular christmas only have two days of celebrations.

Christmas day and boxing day bank holidays.

Christmas lasts 12 days starting for most Christians at midnight on Dec 24th, this is the period or time I am referring to.

You seem to think that some of the things you do in Advent are 'cellebrating Christmas' they are not.

Who are you to judge what determines christmas celebrations! Jesus may be part of your idea of christmas- but it isn't mine.

Well considering I don't celebrate Christmas whether Jesus is part of yours or not is neither hear nor there. So how did you celebrate on the 28th of December? What did yo do on Jan 4th?

I asked a question about the celebration of Christmas by Christians in exactly the same way as I might ask a Muslim about how they celebrate Eid or a Hindu about Divali and quite frankly as you are not a Christian you telling me what you do at a time of year that is not a Christmas for Christians is irrelevant.

You could decide to put a tree up on July 12th, it would not make Christmas move to July for Christians (btw some Christians don't have Christmas day until Jan 6th, I bet you are not celebrating that are you).

"You seem to think that some of the things you do in Advent are 'cellebrating Christmas' they are not."

Yes they are- we are not dependant on what your view is.

Whai I do in my christmas celebrations are not really up to you are they?

I'm looking forward to Easter this year.

Every year it just seems to become more and more important/relevant.

Easter is an important time for me too caramel.

Whai I do in my christmas celebrations are not really up to you are they?

Not at all.

But I don't understand how you can be celebrating Christmas when it is not Christmas.

And to be quite honest I don't understand why you felt the need to stick your nose in.

I was asking Christians a question about their worship / celebration so why did you need to tell me that you celebrate something you call Christmas during a time Christians call advent and is not designated as Christmas by any legal or other definition and that you are not Christian, and you have not answered me but I did ask what you were celebrating during the 12 days of Christmas.

sashh the Op was not inviting views from christians only.

I am an athiest who celebrates christmas ( a festival with a christian name), much like christians celebrate Easter ( a festival with a pagan name).
Much like we all have a Thursday in the week- not just Norse people.

"But I don't understand how you can be celebrating Christmas when it is not Christmas."

But it is christmas- we can all define what that means to us, and we have a strong secular definition by culture and habit,

I can assure you I am a happy athiest celebrating christmas.

There are at a number of festivals going on at Christmas and all have the same name which makes it very confusing.

One is the Christian Festival which celebrates the birth of Jesus. This starts on Christmas Eve and traditionally ends 12 days later on 6th January. Before Christmas is the season of Advent which is prayerful anticipation and reflection. After Christmas is Epiphany with the coming of the kings.

Another festival happening in December is the midwinter festival of eating and drinking which has been going on in Northern Hemisphere countries for thousands of years.

And another festival is the one that celebrates family and you may have to blame Charles Dickens for that one. Personally I think this is the one that causes the most stress as families are not perfect.

I find it helpful to work out which festival I'm operating in.

greenheart- but we call most of them christmas- the name is irrelevant- it is now in common usage for the many ways we celebrate christmas- even the secular festivities.

Yes I thought that was what I said. There are a number of festivals all called Christmas. One is Christian and the others are secular but Christians join in with the feasting and drinking and family stuff and many people who don't go to church turn up for the carol services and Christmas services. All jumbled up.

Yes- I agree, Christmas means many things to different people. Sorry for confusion. Athiest, Christian, pagan or secular, no- one owns Christmas nor should we judge other's interpretation or significance of this- as you say very jumbled festival- much like Easter too- extremely jumbled festival.

All great fun though!!