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Original poster

Father Christamas-what are your veiws?

21 replies

livvylouis · 12/12/2010 20:17

Well just wondering what other Christians views are on the whole father christmas thing. Do you tell your kids he brings the presents? I have had a very heated debate with my church pastor about this today as he see's it as evil? I was told I was encouraging idol worshipping, he called him Satan claus?

Any thoughts?

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jaffacakeaddict · 12/12/2010 20:26

I fudge it. I try to downplay the whole commercial nature of Christmas and put the emphasis on the nativity rather than on Santa. Now that DS1 is 6 I am probably fighting a losing battle ...

Original poster

livvylouis · 13/12/2010 09:45

Bump

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Tortington · 13/12/2010 09:55

your pastor is clearly a fucking loon.

father xmas - st nick brings presents.

go to church at xmas

sing happy birthday to jesus befor you eat

EVERYTHING could be seen as idol worshipping

any popular culture

what pop star do you like? YOU EVIL IDOL WORSHIPPER

bollocks

ByThePowerOfGreyskull · 13/12/2010 10:00

Christmas is Jesus' birthday,
we celebrate his birthday
we have parties to celebrate his birthday
we buy each other gifts to celebrate his birthday
We too sing happy birthday to Jesus
Father Christmas was (IMO) based on St Nicholas who was giving charitable gifts.

No sign of the devil in any of it so far (IMO)

MaryBS · 13/12/2010 11:23

Yes, I tell the kids he brings the presents. I also tell them about St Nick, and about the true meaning of Christmas. Which seems to have got through.

I do NOT agree with your pastor, sorry. He seems to have forgotten a) the true meaning of Christmas and b) that the message Jesus brought is one of love, not hate.

AMumInScotland · 13/12/2010 12:14

I think your pastor is way over the top with this one, unless you are teaching your children to worship Father Christmas. In some ways I think some families do bring FC up to the status of a God - he knows when you've been good or bad, he doles out rewards and punishments, has supernatural powers, parents tell their small children from November onwards that Santa is always watching them and judging them.

But I think that's a very small percentage of parents, and probably not ones who have religious beliefs (sorry but if you're going to tell children there is someone doing that, and you have religious beliefs, then you're going to say God is doing it, not Santa surely?)

Original poster

livvylouis · 13/12/2010 12:18

I totally agree ByThePower and Mary, my dd's beleive in father christmas but if you ask them why we celebrate christmas they will tell you it's because it's Jesus's birthday and we give gifts because to show each other how much we love them. I understand that some people see the whole father christmas thing as over shaddowing the true meaning of Christmas, but if chrilden know why we really celebrate at this time of year then what harm can it do?

My pastor also said that I am encouraging my children not to trust me as when they find out I have been "lying" to them it will bring doubt into their minds

Anyway this is just one little thing in a whole list ofthinhs that I disagree with him about. The phrase Bah Humbug springs to mind!

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Original poster

livvylouis · 13/12/2010 12:22

Yes AMum I think your right about the fact that some people do go over-board with santa, but I think you will agree that a small amount of make-believe doesn't make us bad Christians.

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AMumInScotland · 13/12/2010 12:38

Not in the slightest - I don't think there's anything harmful or non-Christian about "doing" Santa as part of what families do at Christmas. Its so much part of the whole Christmas thing that you have to go out of your way to exclude it, which then just confuses your children when they are talking to their friends. Your pastor sounds like the kind who takes everything too far, and much too literally!

RoonilWazlib · 13/12/2010 12:43

We don't do Father Christmas but I also don't think it is evil and understand why people do FC with their dcs.
We remind the dc about where the FC story came from (St Nicholas) and that some people believe in FC and to respect this.

I am a fan of a book called Serve God, Save the Planet by Matthew J Sleeth. It has a chapter about Christmas and FC, mentioning some of the points that MuminScotland made about the similarities between Jesus and FC.

We will be having a birhday cake and singing Happy Birthday to Jesus and sharing presents. We try to have a low key Christmas.

Your Pastor's views seem a bit extreme regarding this but I would say to use your own judgement.

ilovemyfestivehens · 13/12/2010 12:44

We just tell ds2 that Santa puts the little presents in his stocking and that we buy the other stuff.

I don't personally like Santa because I don't really want my kids sitting on some stranger's knee, it always seemed a bit creepy to me

LadyInaManger · 13/12/2010 12:56

I was brought up very strict christian and we weren't allowed to believe in Santa/Easter bunny/Tooth fairy etc but since i have had DC i encourage all fantasy related ideas as it's part of childhood. I definitely felt i missed out and my DC know the real meaning of Christmas - in fact in church Sunday my DD held up her hand when the pastor asked 'what do you think of when someone mentions Christmas' and said 'Jesus' Birthday' (i was so proud).

We hang up stockings which get filled with sillies and fruit/chocs etc and we buy the bigger stuff but the emphasis is definitely on family time and goodwill etc not presents or who gives them.

These fundamentalists who indoctinate that santa is evil and we are evil for encouraging the fantasy need to get a life. St Nick was real and so we aren't lying imo!

At the end of the day your pastor can give his opinion but it's up to you to heed or choose for yourself - that's why we live in this country 'freedom of choice'. OP you know in your heart what is right so you carry on if that's what you choose to do.

Original poster

livvylouis · 13/12/2010 17:52

Thanks Ladies I just wanted some reassurance that by continuing to do the whole FC thing I wasn't comprimising my relgion. I am in the process of looking for a new church now anyway, not just because of this issue but also a number of other extreme beliefs that this pastor encourages. I just dont feel comfortable there anymore.

Thanks all

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mathanxiety · 13/12/2010 18:08

Your pastor is on the far loony fringe of looniness.

The whole point about Santa Claus is that children can believe that there is a force for good out there, a being who loves them and wishes them well and gives generously -- a bit like God really.

MaryBS · 13/12/2010 18:55

livvylouis, if you're compromising your religion, then so am I. I guess that makes me one of those "darned libruls" that your pastor might have warned you about :o. I'm a pastor of sorts too - am a Lay Preacher/Licensed Lay Minister in the C of E. :)

Original poster

livvylouis · 14/12/2010 10:29

Mary I think in am returning to my former C of E chruch, the only reason I left was because there were no families at that chruch and I wanted to find a more "child friendly" church, seems funny now as how less child friendly could you get than saying santa is satan

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DingDongMaryBSonHigh · 14/12/2010 10:51

Are they friendly, other than there being no children? If so, it may be worth suggesting they start something. When I joined my church, the only other family was the vicar's family. 6 years down the line, there are approximately 35 children and young adults - almost as many as the adults now - for we aren't a big church! Starting a Sunday school made a huge difference, but sometimes it needs at least one family to attract more, IYSWIM!

I hope it all goes well, anyhow, your current church doesn't sound like its got its priorities right!

Original poster

livvylouis · 14/12/2010 11:44

From what I have heard the church now has a number of familes attending due to merging with the Methodist church up the road, anyway going back on sunday and looking forward to it.
.

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DingDongMaryBSonHigh · 15/12/2010 08:40

brill! :)

madangelhaironchristmasday · 15/12/2010 11:07

We do the Santa thing but up -play the nativity thing more, both are lovely and exciting and magical. We have always told the story of St Nick and the dc clamour for it each year, they love hearing about how this Christian man was so loving and kind and gave gifts to poor families, and it totally ties in with what to us Christmas is all about. We've always just said 'what do you think?' if one of them asks, although dh is more of a just tell them persuasion and is told to be quiet . ds who is 7 has said this year he doesn't believe anymore but always has up til now and we've not dissuaded him. dd told him she saw daddy drinking Santa's sherry last year and mummy eating his mince pie and that seems to be it, but they both giggle about it and love it all and still want to do it. I think we can do both, and have a joyful time. Your pastor is indeed a loon.

MrsRichards · 15/12/2010 22:18

We are a Christian family. My children 'believe' in Santa, just as they 'believe' in the tooth fairy. It is not confused with our beliefs in Jesus Christ.

Santa brings gifts at Christmas time just as give gifts to each other to celebrate Jesus' birth. We also give eggs at Easter when we celebrate his resurrection. We don't, however, entertain an easter bunny.

That is probably no help whatsoever OP but is how it works in this home anyway!

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