Am I feeding my puppy enough?

[Romanarama]

I need some advice!

I'm feeding my 12 wk golden retriever 250g per day of pro-plan, which is the max recommended on the back of the pack. He also gets some other snacks - weeny bits of bread, cheese, hot dog, but not much really.

He's growing fast, but slim (not scrawny), and seems to be permanently starving. It takes him 10 seconds to eat his meals, then he's off looking for more food. He's always looking longingly into his empty bowl and trying to nick stuff off our plates. I can feel his ribs very clearly.

Can I feed him more and just judge by eye whether he's getting fat or not? I'm not worried about whether he'll get fat actually, as I'll be able to see, but I am worried that I might make him grow too quickly, or does this have nothing to do with food?

You could feed him a little more (the amount on the pack is just a guide), but you want to avoid him putting too much weight on and consequently putting a strain on his joints.

Is he still on 3 meals a day? If not, that may help.

Some of them do just go bonkers for their food at this age, and it isn't necessarily a sign that he is being under fed. Certainly better to increase his dried food than increase the snacks.

Puppies tend to go through a bit of a scrawny stage when they lose thay lovely puppy round tummy and get a bit taller 12weeks ish so it could be that.

I would not worry too much and would not rely on the dog telling you if he is hungry they can be great actors!!

How old is your puppy now? Usually the manufacturers guidelines are quite generous so you should be alright. If unsure pop into your vets and a vet nurse can just look at your puppy and advise you to put your mind at rest.

I always feed by eye. It is actually quite hard to over feed young puppies.

I don't use proplan as I don't like it, but 250g sounds tiny amount? When Golden Retriever puppies leave me at 8 weeks old, most are on 4 meals per day of 100g each of James Wellbeloved or Burns, so 400g a day at 8 weeks.

Was he on 4 meals per day when you got him and have you now dropped a meal? If so, have you kept the same amount of kibble per day, just split into fewer meals, or reduced the amount of kibble too? A suprising number of people do this, and then ring me because their puppy seems starving. I keep puppies on three meals per day until six months.

I would increase his food a bit in any case. You should be able to easily feel his ribs, like there is s a thin t-shirt covering over them, but not very easily feel them. If you look at him from above, he should have a 'waist' where he goes in just behind his hip bones and he should have a 'tuck' in the same place if looked at from the side.

Is he up to date with his worming and what/ho woften has he been wormed.

Also, just because I am nosey, what is his breeding? Any pics of him?

I'll try to put up a pic! Not sure what you mean by his breeding? He's Belgian - one of these- I think second from bottom of the first set of pups.

I wormed him at 8 weeks and 2 days ago. I can feel his ribs easily, like he's just got a t-shirt on, and he's got a clear 'waist'. He's having 3 meals, which is what the breeder was giving him. Thanks for all your helpful posts, which have made me think that giving him a bit more will be OK. What he's getting does seem really tiny to me. I will get the vet to have a look too, just to check.

Why don't you like pro-plan Midori? Can I give him raw bones as well as his dry food?

I meant his bloodlines by his breeding, I thought you were in the UK. He has Gatchells in his breeding though, (so an English Dad) quite prevelant in UK lines. Two of my girls have gatchells breeding, nice dual purpose lines, bred to work as well as go in the ring. Sadly, the breeder has now retired. I'm just being nosey really.

I don't lke Pro Plan because it has far too many unnecessary ingredients for my liking and doesn't appear to let us know what the meat content of it is, which suggets to me they have something to hide. It also contains wheat/gluten which can be a common cause of skin problems and Goldens can be prone to those.

Yes, you can give him raw bones. If they are beef marrow bones or other weight bearing bones there's a small risk of teeth breaking, but I've personally never known this happen, and he's not got his adult teeth yet anyway. Marow and bones can upset their tummies at first, but just keep an eye on him.

He does have a skin disease - a sort of heavy dandruff that is apparently prevalent in goldens. I was a bit cross with the breeder for not saying that 4 of the 13 pups in the litter had it when we first went to see them (at 5 weeks - maybe it wasn't obvious then?). But when we went to collect him and she told us about it I didn't feel like rejecting him - especially since I suffer from psoriasis, and felt a sort of solidarity!! We weren't planning to show him anyway, and I understand it doesn't imply he'll have other problems. In due course I might try gluten free to see whether it helps.

Are the bones an addition, or a substitute for some of the dry food?

You can just add the bones, unless he starts to get fat. I'll try and find a picture of one of my puppies at 12 weeks to show you the right body condition. (easier in a picture, and she's cute anyway!

Is raw feeding something you'd consider? I know quite a few people who's Goldens have had dry, flakey skin (it is common in Goldens, but IMO, too many people still breed from dogs which have sensitive skin and don't see it as a problem. It's not a major problem, but it's not nice for the dog) and when they change dto a raw diet it stopped. It's not for everyone though. I just stick to foods which have as high a meat content as possible and as little cereals, trying to stick with rice as the only grain. Hence Burns and JWB and find that is fine for mine. There is a food called 'Orijen' which has no grains in it, but I'm not sure if you can get it there? Otherwise, you might find simply cutting out Gluten helps a lot.

Hope this helps.

Romanarama, do you mind if I ask Midori a question on this subject ? My friend has a golden retriever pup who is 6 months old. She had dandruff which they noticed pretty much as soon as they had her at 12 weeks. The vet has given them some shampoo to clear it up but the instructions say to apply after to shampooing with a mild shampoo then leaving it in for 5 mins and they aren't supposed to lick it, which is proving difficult !

The pup came to them on Royal Canin and got very bad gastroenteritis a week after they arrived, had to be taken into the emergency vets on a drip. She has always done a large amount of poos in a day and they've been very loose. So they have just changed her to Wainwrights and are finding that she is now pooing a couple of times in the morning and they are far more solid, so much better.

However, her dandruff is getting worse, to the extent that you can see it on the floor.
Looked at the Wainwrights ingredients and it has rice and a small amount of barley in it, looking at Burns it says it has rice and oats, so I'm guessing it is much the same type of thing.

She's been switched over fully from RC to Wainwrights for about a week. Do you think it is coincidence that the dandruff has worsened ie. haven't shampooed her as much or do you think there is a link ? I know she wouldn't want to go down the raw line, but might do what I do with my dog, mix in raw mince with her Orijen.

She'd be very grateful for any suggestions. Many thanks and apologies to Romananrama for posting on your thread.

Really helpful Midori. I'd consider raw food if I can find a supplier who brings it ready-to-feed. Here in the shops there seems to be little other than pro-plan, royal canin, and Pedigree. I've never seen orijen and waiwrights.

Please go ahead Wynken, golden retriever dandruff is one of my favourite subjects these days

I just bought some anti-dandruff shampoo for mine from the pet shop, so will give it a go.

I have put 2 pictures up on a profile page for me I think. He's actually 13 wks today.

Oh he is utterly gorgeous ! I don't suppose you would swap for a juvenile delinquent dog would you ?!

Wainwrights is a Pets at Home brand I think and Orijen is mostly online from various web retailers.

He is a juvenile delinquent though. I have started tethering him at our mealtimes as otherwise he does running jumps at the kitchen table and gets food off the plates. Very tiresome though quite enterprising! He also bites like mad when excited (often....)

I'm secretly impressed with the running jumps to get food ! I think we're probably just approaching the teenage years here, I thought she was improving and it was too good to be true.

Today she hasn't done a single thing I've told to at home. Then we were out and bumped into a dog of a similar age and she was a nightmare. Chased a cyclist and jumped up at a walker and just wouldn't come back when called. I always call her back if I see someone to put her on the lead and she just wasn't having it. She got kicked by the walker and it was all a nightmare, I feel completely mortified. Long line from now on until she can remember what she's supposed to be doing.

Romanarama, he is absolutely gorgeous! Bless him! I'm laughing at the 'running jumps'...

WynkenBlynkenandNod, is it malaseb shampoo your friend has got? I have found vets try all sorts of things, shampoo, adding cod liver oil or vitamin e oil to food etc but it is always a change of diet that works. I have tried Wainrights with no success and I suspect one of mine is actually sensitive to rice. My dogs hated it too and wouldn't really eat it, despite me persisting. On raw I had no problems, but one of mine won't tolerate bone at all, so I can't really feed two raw and one not, so it's not possible for me to do. Would raw definitely not be an option for your friend? Landywoods do a 'complete' kind of raw diet, which is minced up bones and meat and pretty cheap and you can just add raw bones to it, much easier that way. Sadly, we can't get that here (Northern Ireland). If she speaks to her vet, he can refer her or do an allergy/sensitivity test, although I am nto sure how accurate these are. Obviously Orijen is cereal free and very good, or Applaws now do a cereal free complete dried food. I use their cat food and it's easy to order online and next day delivery. Another cereal free is 'Challenge' (they have a website if you google) I haven't used it, but have hear dgreat reports, and it's reasonably priced and has no rice or other cereals in it. I think your friend will find diet is the key to solving the skin problems.

Hope this helps, give me a shout if you want any more info.

Midori, slightly different subject, but I'm thinking of getting this kennel thing for the car, as I can't find dogbars tall enough for my Grand Voyager here, or from UK that will deliver. I also thought this could double up as travel crate, and avoid the need for a boot liner to save the car from the hair and mud. Do you think a 75cm x 75cm square will be big enough for an adult goldie in the car? Sounds a bit small to me, but the next size up is recommended for St Bernards!

Thanks Midori, that is hugely helpful. I don't know the name of the shampoo. I'm chuckling to myself at the idea of her feeding raw as she can barely cope with poo picking and I think raw might be a step too far ! Thanks for mentioning the Challenge, that might be an option for my dog, but I think we'll gradually end up on raw, I'm working up to it.

I promised her I'd print this out (better edit the bit above) and if you don't mind, I will ask if she has any questions. She'll be hugely grateful for your help, thank you.

No problem WynkenBlynkenandNod.

Romanarama, we use 3ft crates for adults at shows, so I guess 90cm x 60cm. So I think a dog bag of 75cm x 75cm would do an adult Goldie. My friend had one for her Dalmation and I think it was the medium one.

I have a border collie who's 12 eeks old and I am having same problem. I was giving him tails dog food and they gave me a measuring jug for his food which was b2. Four times a day. Now I have got him on hero's food and need to cut him down to 3times a day I am struggling and when is best time to feed him. As I have been feeding him. 7,00. 11.00.3.00 7.00.

If you're looking to get a crate it's worth checking out Marketplace; I've just bought two for my whippet puppy that she will probably grow out of, [one a fabric one like the one you've shown] and a metal one]. A lot of people seem to buy crates and not use them [or, like me, buy one for a puppy that they will get too big for] and you can pick them up really cheaply. I paid £15 for each of them, the fabric one being @ £45 new.

Oh, and I seem to be feeding her constantly; I give her a last meal very late at night so she sleeps late. Now I'm retired I don't want to get up at 6 !! This is my 6th dog and, to be honest it's as if I've never had a dog before. She's much more feisty than any of my previous dogs!

It's the bloody barking constent. And it high pitched. How do you stop it

I'm on my own this week; my partner has gone away for a few days, and I'm afraid I've just had a bit of a meltdown. Puppy has wee'd in the kitchen several times and I've just scrubbed the floor while she sat in her crate and whined [I can't clean it without crating her as she chases the mop; I did put her in the utility room at first, but she wee'd there. But, I digress from the feeding. I wormed her yesterday and she's been off her food today [except for chicken and rice]. The breeder said she wouldn't need worming for another week, but it's a good job I did as she certainly had them. I'm hoping to regulate her eating now she's been wormed; it must have been causing a problem.

Have you tried a different brand of food? We use Scrumbles because of the higher content of meat so don’t need as much in a feed and poo’s are really healthy. scrumbles.co.uk/