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Original poster

puppy advice needed

21 replies

kaylasmum · 26/10/2009 13:56

hi, i have a 9 week old cavalier king charles spaniel and would welcome some advice. We have had her for 2 weeks now and i'm crate training her. so far she has only pood once in the house but she quite regularly pees. I'm watching her closely but she still manages to do it the minute i turn my back. Over the past few days i've been leaving the bck door open for her and that seems to have helped but with the weather turning colder its not really an option. She's also peeing in her crate, i thought dogs did'nt like to soil their sleeping area so i'm a little surprised at this.

The other problem i'm having with her is biting, she just won't give up no matter what i say or do. She just seems so stubborn. I'm not enjoying her as much as i should be because of these things. As soon as she's had all her vaccinations i'm planning on taking her to training classes.

I have another cavalier who is an absolute angel, she's 8 years old and has taken to the puppy really well. I really want to persevere through this difficult stage but i'm struggling at the moment.

TIA for any replies.

OP posts:

ClivetheCatfish · 26/10/2009 15:01

Hi there

Are you taking her out every hour, on the hour, as well as straight after she wakes and straight after she's been fed?

Having an open door can complicate things a bit, in as much as the pup seems to be trained more quickly than it really is (because in actual fact it's spending a lot of time outdoors, where 'accidents' aren't a problem), and also because the pup cannot distinguish between the house and the garden.

In any case, at 9 weeks her bladder control is practically non-existent, so she relies on your vigilance.

Good luck

Original poster

kaylasmum · 26/10/2009 16:02

hi i've been taking her out more than every hour, when she wakes, when she eats or drinks and after she's been playing but she still manages to pee in the house. When i do catch her in the act i shout "no" to her and go to lift her up to take her outside, this usually results in me chasing her around the table half a dozen times before i manage to catch her, and i think that by the time i get her out she has missed the point. She will pee on demand though when i take her out. I say "hurry,hurry" and she knows to go.

How long do you think it takes for them to get the message? Also any tips on the biting snd chewing everything in site?

OP posts:

Original poster

kaylasmum · 26/10/2009 16:03

sorry sight not "site"!

OP posts:

ClivetheCatfish · 26/10/2009 16:08

It's not a case of her not getting the message - she may well understand that you would rather she did it outside, but her bladder control is not yet strong enough to enable her to hold on till she gets outside. You're expecting too much of a tiny pup at this age, tbh.

minimu · 26/10/2009 16:32

Don't chase her and don't comment when she wees indoors. All it does is raise her anxiety level and when whe needs to pee she will do it out of your sight so that you will not shout at her. If she wees inside clean it up and totally ignore it.

So it is back to taking her out very regularly. If you are doing it every hour then you will need to do it every half hour. Walk her outside do not carry her out and then do as you are doing. She sounds like a vey bright little thing to have got the idea of "hurry" already. You will have to be vigilant and encourage her outside for a little while yet but you will find that very soon she will fall into a pattern and it will be easier (but think how long it takes our kids!)

How big is her crate?
What do you clean her bedding and crate with after she has had a wee?

Re the biting she must learn that if she bites all interaction with you ends. So squeal "ow loudly" when she bites and walk away, stand up and cross you arms and turn your back on her.

All family members must do the same every single time she bites, the more consistent you are the quicker she will get the message. Most puppies do this and with correct training this will stop biting very quickly.

Original poster

kaylasmum · 26/10/2009 16:50

yeah i think i am expecting too much. looks like there's going to be a few more puddles in the house for a while to come. Any idea when to expect her to be able to control her bladder a bit better?

OP posts:

Original poster

kaylasmum · 26/10/2009 16:55

hi minimu,
how will she learn that i don't want her to pee in the house if i don't give her a telling off for it. Surely if i just let her do it then she will think that it is ok.I'm using stuff i got from the pet shop to clean up any puddles, its supposed to remove the odour. And have just been washing her bedding with the persil.

We have tried ignoring her when she bites but she just bites our feet or anything else within her reach.

OP posts:

Original poster

kaylasmum · 26/10/2009 16:57

oh and her crate is fairly large, but the recommended size for her breed.

OP posts:

wildfig · 26/10/2009 17:07

Recommended for her adult size? If the crate is big enough for her to wee at one end and then move away from it, she probably will; can you try making it smaller, by blocking one end of it off? She should have enough room to turn around and stretch out.

Original poster

kaylasmum · 26/10/2009 17:20

Hi wildfig,

She seems to be peeing right in the middle of her bedding and she sleeps there too so not sure about that but have been thinking about trying to section the cage off a little.

OP posts:

minimu · 26/10/2009 20:39

Kaylasmum I agree it is so frustrating but dogs respond better to being told what is right rather than what is wrong. So if you praise the peeing in the garden she will always pee in the garden.

But if you tell off the peeing in the kitchen she will get anxious and confused which will make her pee more. SO if poss ignore the weeing in the kitchen yep I know really hard to do BUT go crazy and give loads of treats when she wees in the garden.

I think it is a good idea to section off a bit of the crate again I would take her out last thing at night and ignore any wee in her cage. Once she gets the hang of it she will stop weeing in her cage. I think actually you have a very clever pup but once she gets it she will get it. I never totally trust them for quite a while but as their routine settles down it does become more manageable. Eg wee on morning walk, out again at lunch time wee when picking up the kids afternoon walk and supper and then at bed.

RE the biting I know just what you mean they have been biting your sleeves so you stand up and they start on your toes! If possible maybe put her in room on her on for a few seconds then go back to her. If she bites again put her on her own for a few seconds. Don't put her in her crate for punishment as this can cause more trouble. Also try and find ways of interacting with her without biting have you tried clicker training? This is a great way to tire out a pup without allowing them to bite and get to crazy.

If you could concentrate on these issues intentally for a few days you will see a huge difference. Don't worry if the biting gets worse it sometimes does as she tries harder to interact with you but then it will stop hang on in there!

I bet she is dead cute I am very

minimu · 26/10/2009 20:40

meant to say "intensively"

amazonianwoman · 26/10/2009 22:46

[sorry for hijacking kaylasmum]

Minimu - is it best to find a specific class for clicker training or do I just nip along to Pets at Home, buy a clicker and try to do it myself? Do you literally just click every positive action eg sit immediately they sit and give treat? (actually we've already mastered sit - [proud 9wk old puppy owner ])

Littlepumpkinpie · 26/10/2009 23:33

You have been given sound puppy training advice and I can think of nothing to add myself right now. But aww congratulations on the new Cavalier she sounds a cute little babe.

minimu · 27/10/2009 09:22

Clicker classes are great but you can do it yourself.

First just click and give the pup a treat aftereach click do this on and off for several days.

Then there are two ways of clicker training either by luring or what I call freeway.

Gently lure your dog into a position so for a sit you would hold treat above his noise until he has to sit down instantly click and treat. He will very quickly learn that when he puts his bottom on the ground he is treated. I only work on one behaviour at a time for pups. When he has mastered this then you can add the word sit to the command. So first he learns the behaviour and then the word to identify the behaviour.

To make the pup go into a down holde the treat by the dogs nose and lower to the ground again when he is down click and treat keep at it for a few days add the command .

Freeway is when the dog is more familiar with the clicker and you can just wait to see what behaviours they offer and then click them. One of my dogs had something in his eye and so was siping his paw over his eye looked dead cute so I clicked this and now we have a cry command and he will rub is eye with his paw!

When they are bigger just get a box and see what they do some jump on it, some stand on it, click all the behaviours and you will have a dog that thinks for itself.

Yesterday I taught my 12 year old lab to close the doors. By putting a tuggy on the door everytime she went to it I clicked and then I held back on the click and she tried a bit harder and tugged the tuggy and closd the door clicked that and today I will add the command! Hours of fun for all!!!!

Amazonianwoman clever pup! You could start on wait and down now!

amazonianwoman · 27/10/2009 13:07

Great, excellent advice thanks

He sits and I can get him to wait for a few seconds (been doing this when I put his food down) but I can't master down at all. As soon as the treat goes down to the floor his bottom goes up!

Will perservere - we start puppy classes in 2 weeks, v excited. And he had his 2nd jab + microhip today, so only one more week til we hit the big wide world

amazonianwoman · 27/10/2009 13:08

Kayla - sorry, hijack over.

Original poster

kaylasmum · 27/10/2009 13:38

hi and thanks for the valuable advice,

I will definately try not to make a fuss if she pees on the floor and make more of a fuss of her when she goes outside. I am interested in the clicker training so might give that a go. She is a cute little thing, although not really little.When i took her for her first vaccination the vet said that she is going to be considerably bigger than my 8 year old cavalier but then she is particularly tiny. Oh, and i've also taught her to sit. She picked it up very quickly. She does seem very bright but she also seems to have a very strong character.

OP posts:

Original poster

kaylasmum · 27/10/2009 13:38

hi and thanks for the valuable advice,

OP posts:

minimu · 27/10/2009 17:29

Amazoniawoman with the down put pup in a sit first put the treat right on the end of his nose and then go down to the ground so his nose is on the ground he will find it more comfy to go down and then click and treat.

If his bum goes up mive the treat slightly away from him and he will have to go down to reach it. You are trying to lure him forwards and then down. So eventually he will just move his front legs.

kaylas mum sounds like you have a bright button there!

amazonianwoman · 27/10/2009 20:32

OK thanks I'll make it my mission to get him down tomorrow

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