What is kinder for her?

[notamumyet2010]

Hi all. Trigger warning regarding being PTS.
My mum has a 8 year old JRT, had her since she was a puppy. Has free rein of the house, sleeps on the bed etc. When she was about 8 months she got really sick and she had to go stay at a specialist vets for a week or so. When she came back she was really nervous and we put it down to being ill and thought she would move on. Truthfully over the years she has remained a very nervous dog. Barks all the time, can’t stand being away from her mum, nervous of people, animals…everything really. It’s been really hard for mum but she has managed it, and loves her to bits. As she has got older, her behaviour has just got worse/harder. She is not naughty, in fact she is really well behaved. Was easy to train, wouldn’t touch anything dropped etc but she’s soo unhappy. Since last year this really has got worse and now she has started biting. Due to her anxiety we never touch/approach her, she will come to us sometimes wanting fuss and we give it, then she bites out of nowhere. We have tried behavioural therapists, more than one and nothing works. I will admit
mum isn’t strict with her but this just seems so harsh on the dog. She can’t be trusted, even on a walk mum has to be on high alert in case anyone touches her, luckily most people ask and mum can say please don’t she’s nervous.
Last week it came to a head after yet another bite, and I took her to the vet. The vet was lovely but said really she has no quality of life and we should really strongly consider having her PTS. There is one more option, she has given us the strongest anxiety medication she can for her size and said give it 2 weeks. If we don’t see an improvement, we should go back and put her out of her misery. She is so sad and unhappy and I totally see the vets point but my mum is broken hearted. We have discussed rehoming options but who would take on a dog that bites, especially out of nowhere?
Any advice would be greatly received as I feel like she’s on death row.

Have you tried fluoxetine? That takes about 5-6 weeks to see if it works. My dog does ok on it. And gabapentin. Luckily he got slightly better as he got older, but I fully emphasise. He is ok with daycare so I can have a break when I’ve had too much.

As a starting point she needs muzzle training and to wear her muzzle at all times when out. This helps because it means people will give her space, which helps her anxiety and also means she can't panic and bite anyone. She does sound very anxious, but as she's now older I'd want a thorough check for pain (hips, ears, back especially) but if that's hard with the vet being a stranger then a pain med trial may be suitable to see if it provides any relief for her. But if training (it shouldn't be harsh, if the behaviourist is recommending aversive training then they are scam artists and shouldn't be listened to), pain meds and anxiety meds don't improve her QOL I'd have big concerns too.

She’s biting due to anxiety? I assume she’s been physically examined to eliminate physical pain and the vet wouldn’t put it down to anxiety for nothing..

A dog that’s bitten even just once is as risk. If it were a big breed I’m sure she would have been pts after the first bite. Just because it’s a smaller breed people tend to let them get away with it.

id listen to the vet and pts before she jumps up and gives a child life changing injuries.

For a vet to suggest pts, there can't be any options left.
I think you might have to go along with it. Even small dogs can inflict some nasty scarring bites.

I'd be taking the vet's advice.

I'd say, if the dog is sad and unhappy, do not take her out! Let her stay at home nice and safe. Do not get visitors to try and touch her, leave her alone to guard her space and love your mum. It's no real hardship to not take her out (assuming there is a garden?). I wouldn't want to end the life of an animal for this, I would much rather flex to her needs. In this case her needs seem quite easy?

I'd second a pain med trial. If mo improvement then, yes, sadly put to sleep.

Truthfully I’m not sure what the medication is called. The vet did say it’s the strongest ones she can have and she is on 2 rather than 1. It was the vet who said she needs to evaluate after 2 weeks, I did think medication would normally take longer to kick in. It’s been very hard to get her to take it, but mum has had some success in the last couple of days. No change at all at the moment sadly.
Thanks, it is so tough, I know many people will say it’s just a dog but it doesn’t feel like that when they are part of your family does it.

Unfortunately the vet said as she can’t get close to her she would be reluctant to run tests. Maybe as she has always been anxious and it’s not new for her, we were very honest with the vet about her past as I thought that was important.

I agree. I think we have let it go for too long tbh as she has only bitten family. If she bit anyone else I know my mum knows she would have to be PTS.

No one touches her. Everyone who visits the home knows she is unpredictable. What’s hard is when she approaches us wanting fuss and then suddenly bites. Even the vet said that’s very unusual. Sadly she does need walks, she won’t do everything in the garden. I feel we have adapted to her needs greatly but I now feel leaving her with my elderly mother is a risk.

Is this the same vet that she returned traumatised from? The main thing is no physical reason has been found, which means this is behavioural. There are many rubbish behaviourists out there - I’d be interested in who you tried, how long for and if the teaching was replicated at home as behaviourists essentially train the owner, not just the dog. No dog behaves this way without reason. Sleeping on the bed for example is a no no for an aggressive dog - it might now be irreversible as the dog is so used to it but if you’ve been doing that thinking it’s the right thing you’ve had bad behaviourists.

have you ever successfully trained a dog before?

this does sound to me like behavioural failures, which you can fix. And if you don’t want to, give someone else a chance. You can explain to a rehoming centre and see what they say. Where in the country are you? Some shelters are more willing to take last chancers than others.

for context, I’ve worked in shelters and we had some traumatised and anxious dogs you could not touch. They lived long and happy lives. We didn’t medicate them. It was just the product of their background. No one got bitten unless they made a mistake.

i also personally retrained an elderly aggressive dog that i owned. She was never perfect, there were still a few bites, but the previous owner was considering PTS and I thought it was possible a rescue centre might , so I took her on. The idea she could have lost her life then is unthinkable. I had many happy years with her. There were very important boundaries and she wore a nervous do not touch sign in public so anyone who touched her anyway (it does happen…) had only themselves to blame.

basically your situation is not uncommon and there’s no way on earth you should consider PTS. In fact I’d get another vet if I were you. Not for a second opinion - you’re not dealing with a medical issue but a behavioural one . but because your vet has shown they’re a bit clueless if you ask me.

Is she getting enough walks? Play? Enough mental stimulation? Does she have a routine, which is essential for dogs? There are so many questions here about why she is actually unhappy.

Did you come to a decision? @notamumyet2010