Thoughts on L2 or L4 for Havanese

Theseventhmagpie · 2024-10-25T15:20:34+00:00

I’m due to bring home my Havanese puppy in 3 weeks and the KC registered breeder has said her dogs have a history of reacting to the L2 and L4 vaccines and that I should not give the puppy these vaccinations. My understanding is that these are core vaccinations. The puppy is also likely to spend time in a local UK river. I haven’t spoken to my vet yet but I’m keen to know people’s opinions on this. I’ve read that adverse reactions are very rare, around 7 in 10,000 vaccinations.

ejsmith99 · 26/10/2024 15:26

There is a lot of anxiety about lepto vaccinations in the dog world. Particularly L4 because there appear to be more bad reactions, and they cover strains we don't tend to get in the UK anyway. One of "my" breeds has problems with autoimmune disease, that tends to mean they have an inherited weakness but it needs an environmental trigger and people think vaccinations might be it.

Strictly speaking it isn't a core vaccination but most vets stock the vaccination that includes it. If you decide not to opt for it you need to check whether that will affect your insurance

Dogs can and do die from lepto. Personally I do vaccinate them against it the first year because, like your dog they are in and out of rivers and will be in areas where there are rats. I wish there was more data on the incidence and which strains there are in the UK so we could make an even more informed decision, but right now there isn't.

I'm very jealous about your Havanese pup! I lost one of my bichons this week and if I could have found a well bred Hav pup I'd be queuing up at the breeders door.

Needanadultgapyear · 26/10/2024 15:41

The L2 has an incidence of 2 in 10,000 adverse reactions and covers the 2 strains of lepto has historically been found in the UK. The L4 has an incidence of 7 in 10,000 adverse reactions the extra 2 strains are serovar Bratislava and serogroup grippotyphosa. Grippotyphosa is not found in the UK, but is widely found in Europe and many dogs in the south of England regularly travel to Europe. The attached map shows the incidence of lepto in the UK, map b shows the incidence of Bratislava in the UK mostly it is in the South East, but it is spreading outwards,
Having seen several cases of lepto in my career and only managing to save one of those dogs I vaccinate my own dogs with L4.

Original poster

Theseventhmagpie · 27/10/2024 08:32

ejsmith99 · 26/10/2024 15:26

There is a lot of anxiety about lepto vaccinations in the dog world. Particularly L4 because there appear to be more bad reactions, and they cover strains we don't tend to get in the UK anyway. One of "my" breeds has problems with autoimmune disease, that tends to mean they have an inherited weakness but it needs an environmental trigger and people think vaccinations might be it.

Strictly speaking it isn't a core vaccination but most vets stock the vaccination that includes it. If you decide not to opt for it you need to check whether that will affect your insurance

Dogs can and do die from lepto. Personally I do vaccinate them against it the first year because, like your dog they are in and out of rivers and will be in areas where there are rats. I wish there was more data on the incidence and which strains there are in the UK so we could make an even more informed decision, but right now there isn't.

I'm very jealous about your Havanese pup! I lost one of my bichons this week and if I could have found a well bred Hav pup I'd be queuing up at the breeders door.

Thanks for this, it’s really helpful. I am in a bit of a quandary about what to do.
I’m so sorry to hear about your dog, the reason for the new pup is that I lost my beautiful old boy recently and whilst he’s irreplaceable I need a dog in my life. If you change your mind about a Havanese the breeder seems v good and caring and is based in Hedon. X

OP posts:

Original poster

Theseventhmagpie · 27/10/2024 08:37

Needanadultgapyear · 26/10/2024 15:41

The L2 has an incidence of 2 in 10,000 adverse reactions and covers the 2 strains of lepto has historically been found in the UK. The L4 has an incidence of 7 in 10,000 adverse reactions the extra 2 strains are serovar Bratislava and serogroup grippotyphosa. Grippotyphosa is not found in the UK, but is widely found in Europe and many dogs in the south of England regularly travel to Europe. The attached map shows the incidence of lepto in the UK, map b shows the incidence of Bratislava in the UK mostly it is in the South East, but it is spreading outwards,
Having seen several cases of lepto in my career and only managing to save one of those dogs I vaccinate my own dogs with L4.

Thanks ever so much for this and for the definitive advice. I’m most likely going to vaccinate and probably with the L4 as there’s a strong chance the dog will be travelling to Europe with us. 😊

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Needanadultgapyear · 31/10/2024 08:23

@Theseventhmagpie just to come back to this as there is new news. The manufacture of lepto 2 is being discontinued so only lepto 4 will be available from next year.
I think having been through so many similar things in the veterinary world the debate will disappear and move on to another product.

Polomint1 · 07/11/2024 20:18

Hi. I’ve sent you a private message as I think I am getting a puppy from same breeder!

Original poster

Theseventhmagpie · 03/12/2024 10:27

Polomint1 · 07/11/2024 20:18

Hi. I’ve sent you a private message as I think I am getting a puppy from same breeder!

Hi
so sorry, only just seen this!!
can’t seem to find your private message. Anyway, hope all’s well with your new pup! 😊

OP posts:

Polomint1 · 03/12/2024 10:42

Picked him up last Sunday. He’s gorgeous! How about yours?