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Petitions and activism

Guardian - pushback petition re 'abusive' trans-related content

24 replies

cordeliavorkosigan · 05/03/2020 07:27

www.gopetition.com/petitions/letter-to-the-guardian-protesting-the-pattern-of-abusive-articles-about-trans-people.html

Those who are on twitter might want to jump in on the thread at twitter.com/effjayem/status/1235459670979969025?s=20.

Someone might want to write a different letter. I can't - I think my job would be at risk. Can we assume that the Guardian should be able to understand what "abusive" means? (but in the current climate I wouldn't hold my breath).
Also the letter is very 'transphobic' because it mis-genders millions of people, including me, who don't identify as 'cis' ...

OP posts:
testing987654321 · 05/03/2020 07:44

It's quite brilliantly subservient to the "most vulnerable" women. I mean in the UK realistically the most vulnerable women are the poorest and those being abused in the sex industry.

testing987654321 · 05/03/2020 07:45

I am assuming that anyone who reads this realises the petition regards men as the most vulnerable women.

Kantastic · 05/03/2020 07:46

We believe that bodily autonomy and the right to frame one’s own sexual and gender identity is fundamental to feminism.

what about my bodily autonomy to refuse to undress in front of men? what about my bodily autonomy to refuse having a man perform my smear test?

What about my right to define my own "gender identity" which -insofar as I have one - is NO THANK YOU, I HAVE NOTHING IN COMMON WITH AUTOGYNEPHILES PLEASE DO NOT CATEGORISE US TOGETHER NOW FUCK OFF. (Maybe if i was to invent a polysyllabic name for it, and a flag, my gender identity would be allowed?... nah.)

Why does the "right" of male women to undress in front of me and to claim I somehow (by virtue of my biology!) have something in common with them , supersede my rights to bodily autonomy and self-definition?

cordeliavorkosigan · 05/03/2020 14:29

Exactly, kantastic. We’re cast in the role of supporting and validating others. Which others? Other women? Oh....

OP posts:
squirrelybiscuits · 05/03/2020 18:02

I am assuming that anyone who reads this realises the petition regards men as the most vulnerable women.

It's utterly ridiculous! Meanwhile misogyny still isn't a hate crime. What are all these signatories on??

tobee · 05/03/2020 18:39

"In the past few years The Guardian has been consistently boosting the voice of anti-trans activists. "

Hahahahah!

Chiochan · 05/03/2020 19:10

'We believe that policing sex and gender is alien to feminism.
We believe that we are only as strong as the support we give to the most vulnerable of us.'

It all sounds so lovely doesent it, untill this...

Guardian - pushback petition re 'abusive' trans-related content
cordeliavorkosigan · 06/03/2020 06:11

Can you imagine if this was 'race ideology'?

People saying they identify as (some race) - citing how they always really liked the (racial stereotypes) and felt wrong the way they were, their own racial stereotypes did not resonate, so they now know that they really are the new race. They demand that members of that community validate them and refer to them like they were never any other race, like there was literally no difference, like it was literal violence to discuss skin tone or ancestry or upbringing because they are the most vulnerable, those who are black inside but everyone thinks they are white (or whatever). Everyone else has to love their stereotypes and if they don't want to switch to another race they are cis-racial and they are all privileged because they all identify with these stereotypes.

The biological basis for sex is far, far stronger than the biological basis for race (which I gather is actually pretty weak).

Yet I can't identify as American or Chinese and get my citizenship and validation; I can't identify as indigenous or black and make indigenous of black communities legally accept me as a tribal member or as eligible for awards for black business people. (Nor should I be able to!!).

We can't define a group according to the stereotypes assigned to that group.

So -- gender ideology is to sex as racism is to race. (not completely, not exactly - but there is truth in it).

The analogy breaks down of course, because even though racism is really bad and chronic and awful, we don't need to separate races for safety. Men are the only biologically-defined group that consistently, statistically, globally makes life more dangerous for another large, biologically-defined group -- women. Not all men, but men.

OP posts:
GCAcademic · 06/03/2020 07:01

There is now a petition in support of Suzanne Moore. Please sign it if you can:

www.change.org/p/guardian-news-and-media-support-suzanne-moore-of-the-guardian-for-championing-women-s-rights

Lamahaha · 06/03/2020 07:02

There is a counter petition supporting the Guardian article. I can't post a link here, but it had already reached 1700 signatures overnight and seems to be getting a signature every minute.

Lamahaha · 06/03/2020 07:04

Ah, GC academic, I see you posted a link at the same time as I posted saying I can't post a link! MN does not allow us to post links to petitions, I believe -- correct me if I'm wrong, you other MNers.

Qcng · 06/03/2020 07:40

I think it's crowdfunders you're not allowed to link to, but petitions are fine.

MrsMcKitty · 06/03/2020 07:43

Ive just signed the one supporting Suzanne Moore. It was linked to off someone on Facebook.

MoreJammyDodgersPlease · 06/03/2020 08:27

I've signed the one supporting Suzanne Moore. I bought the Guardian every day for many years, but they'll need to do a lot more in support of women's rights and freedom of speech if they want to tempt me back as a subscriber.

Lamahaha · 06/03/2020 08:45

Qcng Thanks for that information.
Happy to see that the first goal of 1500 has been surpassed and it's now heading towards the 2500 mark, with new signatories appearing almost every second!

Socrates11 · 06/03/2020 10:30

We believe, we believe, we believe.... Well that's all well and good but lots of us don't believe in gender nonsense. People cannot change their sex.
Article 9 ECHR, the right to freedom of thought and belief.
Crack on with your beliefs but don't force us to follow that, which evidence shows, harms women. Thanks a bunch.
A feminist.

Annasgirl · 06/03/2020 11:31

I'm so sick of this debate now - there is no debate, men are men (XY) women are women (XX). Anything else is just how you dress - dear God, in the 17th Century there was more liberalism than to-day.

And for those who want to ignore biology, the Coronavirus is not ignoring biology - does this prove to the medical community that biology matters? Even my teen SC understand that biology is real.

ScrimpshawTheSecond · 06/03/2020 11:41

Thanks for the link, signed. Surprised at how many signatures that has garnered, so quickly.

Prawnofthepatriarchy · 06/03/2020 11:49

Signed and made a small donation. Thanks for alerting me.

Disneydoll12 · 06/03/2020 12:21

Brilliant article. Signed just now, many thanks for the link.

ScrimpshawTheSecond · 06/03/2020 14:05

Nearly 2000 signatures.

Lamahaha · 09/03/2020 16:27

Petition still going strong at almost 3500

Changename5000 · 09/03/2020 16:35

Signed

Joisanofthedales · 09/03/2020 16:52

Signed

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