5 year old is horrible to his Dad. Anyone gone through this?

[5yotrouble]

Our 5 year old son seems to be going through quite a nasty stage with his Dad and I'm not sure what to do about it.

He has always been much closer to me and while I know kids often favour one parent or another, I do think DH has himself to blame for this in part. He did prioritise work (SE) a lot when DS was young and he doesn't do much at all of his actual care needs for example I cook 99% of his meals, I bath him, I take him for new clothes, I drop and collect from school, I do the story every night at bed (although DH does stay and listen with us), he rarely has him alone although does obviously if I am going anywhere.

DH does also play with him though, comes out with us on a weekend, buys him treats, stays for bed time routine, is often softer on him than I can be! So it's not like he's completely uninvolved, he isn't.

But DS is just really awful to him at the moment. He is constantly saying things like "I don't love you/ go away/ leave me alone / why is dad coming with us" etc...

I'm actually feeling quite sorry for DH at the moment.

I speak to DS, I tell him it's unkind, I ask him not to speak like that about daddy, I tell him daddy loves him etc.. but it doesn't make any difference.

For example this evening DS was watching cartoons in the living room and DH just came in and sat on the other sofa and DS was so nasty "why are you here, just leave me alone, I don't want you here". DH wasn't even doing anything, just in the same room!

There are occasions where he is nice to H but more often than not at the moment it's stuff like this and I don't know what to do. When I ask him why he says it's because daddy tells him off. But honestly he really doesn't that often and even when he does it's genuinely because DS has misbehaved, like all parents do from time to time, I tell him off too! It really isn't excessively DH disciplining him.

What's going on?! Is this normal? I'm honestly glad I'm not on the receiving end because I'd be heartbroken.

Goodness, what consequences is he getting for being so rude?

My dss were definitely much closer to me than their dad, but I worked hard to include him in things. And I would have definitely had his back if either of them had been rude to him. It's his home too. And 5 is old enough to learn to share. There would have been 5 minutes on the naughty step for that, and if there was a repeat the tv would have gone off and he'd have been in his room until he was ready to apologise.

I think you have to take the lead on this as a) he needs to see you supporting each other and
b) if your husband risks alienating him further by responding, he's less likely to react.

Hth

my dh does a lot of DCs care and they have told him they don’t like him, and told him to go away. We just model polite ways to make the same request and I talk a lot about what dh does for them because I think they don’t notice a lot of it eg did you say thank you to daddy for making your favourite dinner? I think it helps them see what he’s adding to their lives. I think sometimes it’s just for a reaction too.

In your case though, leave dh to sort it? You’re already doing most of the care for ds, maybe dh can pick this one thing up.
are you also sure it’s not a reaction to DHs lack of input? Maybe anger or frustration or just completely reasonably feeling less close to him.

What stands out to me is you refer to your husband as “coming out with us” at the weekend. Not “we go out as a family at the weekend”. It doesn’t seem like it’s only the child who sees you two as a unit and the husband/dad as the extra.

I guess my eldest did a bit of this but younger than 5. At 5 she still did but only when not getting her way. Now it’s not a thing. So whilst I want to say that’s just a phase, IME your DS seems a bit too old not to understand what he’s saying, so the other thing I’d be thinking is what is your DP doing that you might not be aware of? And I don’t automatically mean the awful stuff, more just does he snap? Is he stricter?

How did you respond when he said the 'why are you here? Leave me alone' stuff?

Because saying "That's not very nice" is really not strong enough. You shouldn't be asking him not to speak to his dad like that but telling him its absolutely unacceptable. I agree with the previous poster - the TV should immediately go off

You are being waaaaay too gentle. The tv would be off and he would be in his room for being so foul in our house.
As for ‘coming out with us’, do YOU see DH as part of this family? Or is he merely a breadwinner while you play mummy?

Tv off, you are enabling it if you are not showing him repercussions for his behaviour.

Goodness I’d be down on this like a tonne of bricks. That is appalling rudeness. Your ds is old enough to understand what he’s saying, he’s not a toddler.
what were the consequences for this evenings rudeness. For me it would have been tv off, a sharp rebuke and being sent away until he was ready to apologise.
it should not be daddy is coming with ‘us’ - it should be we are all going together. Perhaps also some emphasis also on how hard daddy works to enable days out etc. Your dh sounds like he makes a real effort. Perhaps giving them more time alone, a special activity they could do together would help - but primarily I think you need to be far firmer with him over this behaviour he is old enough to know that it is not ok.
Theres a difference between wanting mum when very distressed etc (as you say it’s normal for a slight favourite to emerge then) and a pattern of rude and disrespectful behaviour.

Or is he merely a breadwinner while you play mummy?

A little rude (and presumptuous). I work full time too and bring just as much financially to the household as DH does so no, he is not "merely the breadwinner while I play mummy".

I guess I do sometimes see me and DS as a unit and DH slightly on the outer side of that due to the reasons I explained in my OP. A lot of DS's care has always been left down to me, and no, it wasn't because I was a SAHM while DH worked. I feel like DH often has quite old fashioned views on gender roles and it's something we've had to have discussions about in the past, but basically anything that is actually needed for DS has always fallen to me. So while I appreciate it may come across as me othering DH by saying things like come out with us, it isn't without it's reasons. It's something I'll try and work on myself.

I do give consequences, for example earlier, I took away the afters he was having (some sweets after tea) because he'd been unkind.

I've suggested tonight that DH try and spend some more one on one time with him too.

It's difficult because DS is not like this with others, he is so sweet to me, his teachers, other family members.

It seems to me that your son sees his dad as competition. He wants you all to himself

My son is 5 and exactly the same, even trying to punch dad when he sees him. I don't sweat it. I have read in a book that boys are very much for mum in these years but around 7 or 8 they seek out their dad more and more so I just enjoy that he is close to me presently. He is very sweet and soft natured and not aggressive at all and it's out of character so I'm assuming he wants just me right now

Honestly i think the consequences you gave him were too gentle. This really need to be stopped. As I said I would have turned off the tv immediately and sent him out until he was ready to apologise. I genuinely think you need to be that firm with him every time. I say you because you son needs to know - from you - that his dad is part of the ‘team’ and that you won’t tolerate him speaking like that about him and being so rude.

DH has ‘old fashioned views on gender’ but you manifest that by actually living up to them?

Pandering to your son’s every whim while dad is the bad guy will do him no favours. You both need to tell him off sharply when he’s rude, and zero tolerance for it. None of this begging him to not be ‘unkind to daddy’ - no, you tell him it must stop. Speak calmly but coldly. Tv goes off if he can’t behave nicely.

You also need to tell your DH sharply that you’re not the domestic hired help and he is to step up and parent his son. That is - spend time with him, know him, love him but also, yes, discipline him when necessary. It shouldn’t be a little club of two. You’re a family.

You reap what you sow. Your husband hasn't invested in his relationship with his child, and his child is expressing his recognition of this in child terms. Why would you gaslight your young child by coming down hard on him because he is simply expressing things as he finds them? He has a loving mother and an uninvolved father. Why should he have to pretend that he has the same bond with each of them.

I feel like DH often has quite old fashioned views on gender roles and it's something we've had to have discussions about in the past, but basically anything that is actually needed for DS has always fallen to me.

For 'old fashioned', ready lazy. Your husband is lazy. You both work full time so this is unacceptable and unforgivable.

Essentially, actions have consequences. I'd say that the priority is for your husband to realise this and start working on his relationship with his son. When he's figured it out, maybe then it's time to start correcting the small child who is just reacting to the reality of his world.

I wouldn't jump in to fix this. Just shrug your shoulders and enjoy the bond you've built with your DS.

If it makes you feel any better, I was like that with my dad when I was about 3 or 4 - when he came home from work I used to scream "don't let him in!". I have no idea why, I'm very close to my dad - I can only think that I didn't want to share my mum with him when he got home? My mum was a SAHM until I was 5.

But I grew out of it and I don't think it caused any lasting damage to me or my dad 😀

My six year old is still like this occasionally, it is definitely getting less frequent as he gets older but still happening. My DP is very similar to your DH. I do the vast bulk of the kids care and ultimately I put a lot more effort into my relationship with them than he does. Obviously I will pull him up on speaking unkindly etc but I do think that a lot of this is up to my DP to build a better relationship and it shouldn’t be yet another thing for me to worry about or sort.

It might be this. My friend’s son is this age and has just come out of a stage of being horrible to his dad. Friend said boys can get a testosterone surge at this age that makes them more aggressive. They gave consequences every time but it was clearly exhausting and upsetting.

I'm kind of surprised people are saying be harsher on him. Yes, obviously rudeness is unacceptable and you need to show a united front on that. But he is communicating something about his feelings towards his dad. Your DH needs to be working on his relationship with DS separately. Spending time with him, taking him out, looking after him while you're not there. It's funny that you do everything AND you also are supposed to manage their relationship. What does dh think about it - you haven't said?

Agree with all of this! DS2 is 6 and very similar. I don't tolerate rudeness, but ultimately DH needs to put in the work to build a closer relationship. He is close with DS1 so I know he is capable of it.

Your DH needs to work on his relationship with your son. My youngest is all for me, he couldn’t even bring himself to be nice to his Dad on Father’s Day when he was younger so he’d just be nasty to me on that day. His Dad put and still puts very little interest in youngest. They have little in common but he could have tried more. I’m divorced now and custody is 50/50. I stopped a long time ago feeling responsible for ex’s relationship with youngest. With our eldest he showed a lot more interest because of shared interests, I have far less in common with my eldest but still show an interest in his hobbies so I can share that and spend time with him.

basically what I think I’m trying to say is you can address the rudeness but it’s not up to you to improve their relationship. And whilst I’d be addressing the rudeness your son is probably saying these things because he realised your husband does very little with him and is trying to express that he notices.

Christ. Did she say he’s the breadwinner or that she doesn’t work?
All she said was that she does most of the care for their shared ds, and you’ve assumed she’s some sort of gold digger
That’s a real shame those are your presumptions about women.

It’s interesting that he’s old fashioned, that’s very convenient isn’t it for him. I might be old fashioned if it meant I got to do less. He’s not old fashioned enough to go out and make sure he earns more money though I note. Always interesting when one person wants to be in charge and not do housework or childcare, but forgets that in that traditional agreement, the one not doing childcare and housework is typically the main or only provider. Really feels like having your cake and eating it, to have someone run everything in the house and share the load on providing.

it’s also interesting that you’re taking things from this thread to work on, and you’re helping ds and DHs relationship, and advising dh on what to do, and you were the one to punish ds. What is dh doing about it all? No wonder you don’t really account for him in your life. Perhaps ds is just trying to communicate how he feels about DHs chosen position in the family.

I think you have to remove yourself when he is rude like this.

To be honest I disagree that your DH is to blame in some way. I think any sort of resentment can be put aside for this, it doesn’t matter, it’s rude, end of. We’re entitled to our opinions but not to voice them whenever we feel like it!

You tell him it’s not nice - and ?

he says he doesn’t want dad to come do the trip is cancellled ?

he doesn’t want dad in the room? He gets sent to his room ?

What if he doesn't want dad to come because dad is constantly on his phone and is no fun?