How can I reinstate boundaries with my older children?

[Pokeydokey]

Hi all, new poster here. Hoping for some advice.
I'm trying to reinstate boundaries with my dds. They are 10 and 7, and somewhere along the line I've gone from being their mum to feeling more like their employee!
They have very little respect for me. They speak to me horribly when they're upset, can lash out , expect me to do everything for them, don't tidy up after themselves and don't seem to think any household jobs are their responsibility. If I don't do something immediately, things can go downhill very quickly.
I should say it's not all bad. I absolutely adore them, and we have some genuinely lovely times together. We game together, bake, craft, watch films and laugh a lot. But the day-to-day dynamic just feels completely wrong.
I'm a single mum, juggling work, the house, school, clubs and all the other big life things that come with raising children. We've also had a difficult period with separation and co-parenting, and I think I probably let too many boundaries slide just trying to get us all through it.
We're seeing a family therapist, which I'm really hopeful about, but I'd love to hear from anyone who's managed to turn things around with older children. Where did you start? How did you get your children treating you like the parent again rather than expecting you to do absolutely everything?
Any practical advice would be really appreciated.

So firstly, I think it’s really important to acknowledge that the preteen years are quite tough. Not so much the 7 year old, but for the 10 year old, this is probably quite normal behaviour for this age. I can attest it doesn’t get better at 13/14. 😂

The thing you need to manage is not them, but your response. Just say no. If mine ask me for things, a snack, to sort the tv out because it’s not working, a drink, to find something they’ve lost, I often make them wait. I’m not their house staff. If you’ve lost your hair scrunchie, you can look for it. You don’t need me. I’m happy to help once you’ve looked yourself, but right now, I’m busy. I will help when I’m no longer busy…and then I make them wait 20 minutes. I don’t buy them whatever they want. I say no to friends coming over if it’s not convenient. I make them tidy their rooms before we do anything. I will sit at home all day and wait until they do what I expect them to do. It’s about not jumping as soon as they say.

My guess is in life you probably are a people pleaser. It probably happens in romantic relationships and at work and with family. So it’s something you need to tackle if you generally want healthy relationships of all sorts. I think it really come from practice and sitting with it. Say no. Not right now. I can’t do that. And then let it sit there. Let them be upset and throw themselves to the floor and shout and say horrible things, but hold your ground. They learn how to self-regulate and manage their emotions by being given the chance to practice, not by you rushing in to say yes and make everyone happy. They’ll need those skills for healthy relationships themselves in adulthood. So for you, it’s just doing it and accepting it’s going to feel uncomfortable and sitting on your hands until that feeling passes.

At those ages they able to be part of the conversation. Discuss with them some household rules about chores and attitudes. You can agree a household charter with consequences and rewards if you want to include them.

Thank you, that's really helpful. I think you're right that I need to stop rushing in to fix everything immediately.
I like the idea of not giving in, but instead making sure everyone (including me) is safe and then parking it for 10–20 minutes rather than trying to solve it in the middle of all the emotions.
I completely agree it's going to feel uncomfortable, but I also agree it's something I need to do if we're going to change the dynamic.
And yes... you've hit the nail on the head. I am definitely a people pleaser, and I know I need to work on my own boundaries as much as I need to work on theirs!

They are great working towards rewards - less so with consequences! Maybe we could set a chart up together...

This is an incredibly useful response and I could take quite a lot from this despite my kids being mid/later teens!

How nice for someone to respond helpfully and positively instead of suggesting OP is a failure in life/the usual things these threads bring.

Hopefully it's set the tone for the thread.

Much recommended on here in the past is the How to Talk so Kids Will Listen book, wish I had been better at sticking to it. And for you, anything by Dr Brad Reedy - has a podcast and books - as he has a lot to say about how to have healthy boundaries.
As mum of a 17 year old who I negotiated with too often, you have plenty of time to put the work in now before hitting the potentially testing teenage years.

this is the important point though: you can’t set boundaries for other people. you can only set and enforce them for yourself.

eg You can’t stop your child talking rudely to you or demanding you do XYZ right now - but you can decide how you are going to respond. Re-read @mindutopia excellent post above: you’ll notice that she doesn’t talk about anyones boundaries except her own. She’s telling her children clearly what she’s willing to do - and what she is not. She’s not aiming to solve the problem that they’ve brought to her per se - she’s deciding what she is willing to do - or not do - in response to the problem.

so don’t worry about your children’s boundaries in relation to you - that will sort itself out when you establish yours, and they have to work it out from there.

Really good point - thank you :)

@mindutopia is so right.

I’d add that I find humour helps a lot eg ‘ok, but if I find it in less than a minute then you’ll owe me a cup of tea / dishwasher re-stack / the last chocolate Hobnob’.

And also that sometimes saying ‘yes, when…’ works well eg ‘yes, I’ll happily bake with you when you’ve done your homework’.

I will try this too...unless i get screamed at!

Even if you get screamed at, you’ve got the choice in how to respond. I find quietly disappearing to do my own thing works quite well, or sometimes I say something like ‘shouting at me doesn’t work, you know this. If you want something you’ll need to ask nicely, and then I might say yes’.

But you do have to make sure that shouting (or whining or whatever) doesn’t ever work to change your mind, which is tricky if it used to work, because you have to make them realise it doesn’t any more. And that takes a lot of repetition.

Thank you, I tried this today - actually in a shop - and it worked! Id said no to something - youngest went and hid behind a pillar in a total sulk - I said fine - Ill go and pay for what I do have! Dc quickly stopped her protest and joined me with something far more appropriate!

You pull them up every single time. Food does not arrive until they say please or thank you. You do not fetch anything for them until they say please or thank you. If you ask them to put away their shoes, nothing happens until it is done. The router remains off and the TV remote or their phones in your bag until they do as you ask.

No treats until they treat you better. Rewards as soon as they do.

You don't blink first. They can be obstinate but you can be more so. It's the only way.

I found that ‘you know this…’ is very effective, if it’s a rule or boundary that you have previously set and are enforcing.

You know that screaming at me does not make me want to do XYZ for you.
You know not to talk to me like that: I’ll be ready to listen when you are ready to talk politely.

Not said in a reproachful way to guilt trip them - that’s manipulative - it’s more just a statement of fact, that this is the way things are and that you will not budge. (You can’t budge - you have to be consistent).

Thank you everyone - this is all so helpful!