Advice for managing a five-year-old who runs off and refuses to leave

[Luna20]

Has anyone got any advice please? Or just solidarity. Today was another failed family outing. My 5 year old ran off from me at the park, if I chase after him he thinks it's a game and runs even faster and further. If I ask him to come to me he ignores me. If I stand still and tell him to come he doesn't. I'm at a loss of how to handle this situation? It happens pretty regularly at the minute. I've had to carry him to the car sobbing, kicking, screaming, hitting. All because he's ran off from me, hasn't listened when I've warned him that we will need to leave if he continues to not listen. And then he fights me on the leaving. He lashes out and I can tell he's in full flight or fight mode. I try to stay calm, I wait til he settles to properly engage. I give him a warning, I stick to the boundaries I have set and he knows I mean it when I say we will leave. But it's causing so much rage and upset. And he's getting way too big for me to handle, he really hurts me if he lands a hit and tbh he's heavy and I can't carry him back to the car much longer. I'm wondering what I can do once he can physically over power me. What tools do I have in my tool box to make him leave and come to the car when it's time to go? I feel like I have nothing at this point! Once he's calm and we talk about his behaviour he's says he's sorry and he gets upset and cries and I feel bad for him. But I have warned him that if can't listen when I say it's time to leave it will mean we will have to stop going to the park or wherever it was that he kicked off. He is potentially neurodiverse. We have an early intervention team involved and they have done a referral for autism. They have given us frameworks to work with but have told us we are doing all the right things with positive reinforcement, consequences and boundary setting etc. He has a lot of signs of PDA. I have a toddler at home too and I'm struggling. During the week when my partner works I feel like I can't take both the boys out on my own because of the eldest runs off, what do I do when I also have the little one to manage? I'm starting to feel like I can't cope and I think I may be becoming depressed. I feel hopeless. Every single tiny thing at home is a battle and it's exhausting. We have a reward chart which works to an extent but if he's in that frame of mind then he simply will not care. We were told not to take earned stickers away from him for bad behaviour but I feel tempted to at this point so that he can visualise an actual consequence to his actions. If anyone has been in a similar boat I'd like to hear from you please! I'ln particular how do you get a defiant kid to leave somewhere when you can no longer just pick them up and carry them? Thanks!

reins?

Wrist strap attached to a parent for safety until he learns.

Count to five? Even though he doesn’t know what will happen if you get to five. Usually works.

Tell him it’s time to go then if he refuses, walk away in the direction of the car but keep an eye on him from a distance.

I was like this as a kid as was my DD, I think all you can do is be super consistent and try to pre manage transactions.
DD responded well with choices too so in 10 minutes we will be leaving the park to drive home, there’s a cold drink and a magazine waiting for you in the car.
Five minute and 1 minute repeat warning.
Choice for example would be walk or skip to the car.

Much sympathy I found that stage absolutely draining.
DD (clearly Adhd/autistic) was a very easy teenager so perhaps there’s hope there.

That should read transitions not transactions.

Sheesh! Autocorrect

My DNephew (8) used to do this when he was 3 upwards. He stopped about 2 years ago. His parents were forever racing after him and he ran fast. He still does trail behind a bit now on walks but doesn’t run off or if he does it’s where I can see him. He’s not autistic or anything either.

As pp said try reins.

If it happens every time you go to the park I think he’s showing you that he can’t cope safely in that environment right now. Instead maybe stick to fully enclosed settings (soft play, trampoline park?) for now?

Yes, reins or no park. Can you get those Little Life backpacks still with the reins attached? Those were good.

I well remember a visit to Hever Castle around that age with DD trying to swim in the moat and post herself out of arrow slot windows!

Reins for walking.

There's a book called 123 magic. It has parenting techniques for children who the usual parenting tips just don't work for. I found it reasonably helpful for my child who is now diagnosed ADHD.

Also, it sounds like one of the issues is transitions. The stopping of an activity he's enjoying to do something else - very very difficult for a child with PDA. I had some success with "we are leaving soon. Would you like 1 more go on the slide or one more go on the swing before we leave?" The child still feels they have some control but you're successfully (hopefully) moving towards leaving calmly.

Good luck. Parenting neurodiversity is tricky and only parents who know first hand will really understand. Are there any autism or ADHD parenting group near you? They can be helpful.

Youre doing all the right things.Sounds like your child has some additional needs making this harder. What you’ve described would work for many, many children.
when my autistic child went through this I kept a electronic device in the car and he was only allowed it there after he had been out somewhere and returned. It helped along with all the boundaries and warnings and communication etc.
Hope it gets easier.

My friend's daughter was like this.we used to take our girls to swimming lessons together between the ages of 3 & 5 and go back to each others houses to play and have tea alternate weeks. When it came to the girl going home she shouted and screamed and head butted her mum. It was awful. Safe to say 30 years on the girls are still great friends and we're at each others weddings recently and the girl who shouted and screamed is delightful. She just eventually grew out of it. I do wonder if she was just tired and overwhelmed with it all.

I would consider training like a dog.
You want to stay for an hour.
So every 5 minutes call him back for a mini treat and praise.
At the end if he leaves nicely a big sticker towards a treat which has to be something he values (extra story, screen time, stay up 30mins, lego, whatever)
Give the treat after 1 big sticker, then 5 then 10.

Every time remind about the treats.

Also can use sometimes 'oh its such a shame I wanted us to ... something nice ... but because you didn't come back we don't have time.

If a runner somewhere dangerous then reinstall or wrist strap.

Hi. My daughter has pda - she is 27 now.

Firstly, I would say that anyone who doesn't have a pda child will give you all sorts of seemingly sensible Ideas which won't work.

PDA "tantrums" are better understood as panic attacks. Your goal should be to keep him regulated as much as possible and stop him from getting into panic mode. Once he has entered the panic mode state, you have lost the chance to get what you wanted without a huge amount of trouble.

So, retacing your footsteps, you need to intervene earlier. Pda kids hate direct demands so you can't eg say "right we are leaving". You can offer choices eg "would you like to run to the car or push the buggy?"

You can use sensory stuff to keep him regulated - does he prefer to crunch, chew, suck, lick for example, then have appropriate snacks he can have during the outing or when you are leaving.

Try not to argue with him or chase him. Stand your ground. Repeat the options, offer the snacks. You need to stay calm and regulated too. You might need a snack yourself! Main thing is to not escalate matters. You may have to wait 5 mins and try again.

Try to go to less exciting places at first - a walk in parkland rather than into a swing park, so he has less to distract him.

But also you need to keep his home life similarly non over demanding, because the more he knows you understand and are trying to help him, the more he will be willing to listen to you.

Do you use pda strategies at home? Has he had any sensory assessments to see what helps him to be and stay calm?

Good luck.

We used 1 more go for transitions too.

My DD age 21 (some SN) still needs warnings. If we say 'in 20mins can you ...' it is way better than 'can you ...' even if it is something she should already have done.

Exactly

I can't help on the running off, but both my dds found transitions hard. The trick for us was always being consistent. We religiously used the concept of last / final play.

So for example....We need to leave in 10 minutes it will be last play soon... okay it is last play time pick your last play. Right last play is finished we are leaving now. There was never ever a negotiation or another play. Last play always meant last play. They learned quickly after a few tantrums and carries out the park! It worked a treat for us and made my life pretty easy.

I have to laugh at trampoline park. Do you know it is possible for a small child to bounce continuously for two hours?

OP I so feel your pain. I had some success with my child if I said imaginary toddler friends had run away and we had to catch them. Sometimes.

Once I left my then 4yo runaway in an enclosed park to take the bags 200m to my car, so I could physically carry my child. When I returned the 9yos who had been playing nearby had escorted my child to an official and reported me for neglect.

I would write a book on managing PDA but my own attention is now shot to bits. I think "The Incredible Years" was somewhat helpful, but it's not aimed at PDA so you might have seen all the ideas.

Did your children have pda?

Isn’t that why we take them, to wear the buggers out? 😆 I was thinking of contained spaces where they can’t run! Our local park is right alongside a river, I don’t envy any parent with a runner in a place like that

Tell him that if he runs off you will bring him straight home ... and do it.

I was also going to offer advise - counting down final play (5 min warning, 1 minute warning, 10 second countdown….). When the timer is finished it is good to grab both hands, get to eye level and say - lets go do something fun! (So concentrating on doing something fun, instead of leaving something fun).

I would also always have something good lined up for afterwards (snack / favourite show / play date / favourite bath toy / new small fidget toy to play with).

Worth a try.

…I used to be a ‘runner’ myself when I was a child. It would work to ‘race me to the car’ or have a good run around the park before racing to the car.

Park with river = reins. Same with roads, railway stations etc. I got a lot of negative comments on them - "you know your child is not a dog?"
Trampoline or any physical activity is great but too much repetition can lead to arthritis (ask me how I know.) I signed my child up to about four different classes.

A fun feature of being Mum to a spirited child is that some people tell you to be stricter, and others accuse you of overcontrolling. Dragon mum, helicopter parent, overscheduled kid; but also laissez-faire mum, slapdash parent, spoilt kid.